"This is the time for the bloggers to do something useful and not just use their blogs to condemn the government" - Zahid Hamidi, Minister in the PM's Department.
Minister in the PM's Department Zahid Hamidi has urged Muslim bloggers (that means me, I suppose - I am Muslim and a blogger) to help counter the attack against Islam by anti-immigration right-wing Dutch politician Geert Wilders who made a 15-minute film "Fitna".
The short film, posted in the internet, features violent imagery of terrorist attacks in New York and Madrid set against passages from the Quran that are distorted and taken out of context.
Pas, the National Union of Malaysian Muslim Students, Muslim Youth Movement of Malaysia (Abim), World Assembly of Youth (WAY), Malaysian 4B Youth (4B) and Dunia Melayu Dunia Islam (DMDI) and Umno Youth have called for the commercial boycott of Dutch products in a protest over the film.
To be honest, I have not seen the film. Maybe I don't want to. But I will. Actually, I am so curious but I know I'd be closing my eyes throughout because of the violence.
All I can say for now is that I am not surprised that it was a Dutchman who made the film.
Oh...you know the Dutch, they are very very liberal, open, free.
And, of course, this film was made in the name of art and artistic freedom...
I'm sure Geert Wilders was aware that such a film would inflame Muslims across the globe.
49 comments:
i don't agree though, to boycott products from netherland because of the movie.
should we encourage other countries to boycott malaysian products too because jamaluddin jarjis and nazri aziz made racist remarks?
yes, they are malaysians. no, they are not malaysia.
wilders is a netherlander. not netherland.
big obvious difference if you ask me.
Nuraina,
One insensitve Dutch man made the film. Why punish all the Dutch?
Like wise one Malaysian killed Altantuya, do all Malaysians have to bear the burden ?
Stop exporting CPO and shut down Lever Bros also
I think those who want to watch 'Fitna', especially Muslims, should watch with open mind. In this video, it mentioned certain 'hate' verses that claimed to be part of the Holy Quran.
To me, a non-Muslim, my question is that is there any such 'hate' verses are in fact contained in the Holy Quran. If there is, then Muslim should admit it, right? If no such verses, then, all you need to do is to clarify with Wilder. Nuraina, you agree with me?
Boycott or counter attack are definitely not a civilised action for Muslim world.
Are all Dutch enemies of Islam? A blanket antagonism against the Dutch based on one right-winger does now help to win friends.
It doesn't need brains to tar brush by association. But by going to extreme measures, one can gain tremendous political mileage.
BTW, Shell Petroleum is a Dutch national concern. If Petronas has any jv with Shell, will the boycott applies also, or was it for ordinary consumers only?
kak ena, watch the movie first cos i think we all need to make informed decisions concerning this. i have a link to the full video in my site, if it helps. it's not THAT horrific a movie, i can guarantee you it is not something you've never seen before. maybe the presentation is a little questionable.
of course wilders knew what he was doing. if his intentions were to prove that muslims around the world are intolerant to skewed interpretations of their faith, then he achieved it. muslims should rebut his allegations! that's what i wanna see. healthy responses. show that the islam faith is stronger than his allegations.
I think we Muslims should not fall into the trap.
The film is a planned provocation against Muslims and portrayed Islam as a religion of violence.
To react to it irrationally would just confirm what he said about violence in the Koran,Islam and Muslims as being true.
If Muslims care to read the Bible(Old Testament), which many don't, they would be equally shocked as to number of verses relating to violence mentioned in it.Some parts of the Bible are so pornographic that some parents find it extremely uncomfortable to let young children read those chapters.
The difference between the Bible and Koran,Christians and Muslims is that the Christians took the Bible as a sacred story book of the religion while Muslims took the Koran as sacred manual of the religion.
I think such idiotic film is best left ignored.
The film speaks for itself.It's a fitna against Islam.
Geert Wilders is not an artist, he is a politician and a Dutch member of parliament. And Fitna is definitely not a work of art.
It is a calculated response to 'incompatible' immigration and immigrants.
Interestingly, there wasn't such over-the-top reaction against immigrants from the former Dutch colonies of Surinam (Dutch Guyana) or Indonesia. The Arabs should just stay home.
Did Zahid said condemning Pak Lah's Government is not as useful as defending the whatchamacallit film?
That film didn't bother me yet but Pak Lah's Government does. What an idiot.
I will never forget this guy who transfered Kretam Berhad shares from a Foundation into his personal name. When exposed, he claimed that he is keeping it under trustee.
Yeah ... sure. Is there a law agst foundation keeping shares under its name? Hmm ... and this thief is now a Minister for Religious Affair.
Just glad to say that he won't be there for long in this Titanic Cabinet ... what do I know anything? Well ... hmmm ....
For that stupid remark, Zahid, go f**k yourself silly. Do your own freakin defending. Or go ask the Cybertroopers of Freaky Lesb*** Queen to do their job? They are paid for it what.
but i thought condemning the government was a useful cause?
One of Dutch view on this on another forum...hope this enlighten the readers here. Thanks
"I think you hit the sweet spot here with your input. Perhaps it's nice a Dutch member of LY.net replies to this thread smile.gif...(though perhaps other Dutchies already replied).
As was mentioned before; The Netherlands has multiple groups of people (besides from ethnic or racial groups); people who hate media and all fuzz around it. This group could easily comprise of almost 30 to 40% of all Dutch people. Not everyone is interested in the media. Local farmers for example have better things to do, as do so many other people. Another group are people who are interested in the matter, but clearly loath Wilders and his party. I am one of them. Every day I get to see Wilders talk out of his ass, every day he gets a verbal 'royal treatment' by our parliament. Almost none of his arguments last a day. There are also people who sympatise with his beliefs. His party however is tiny, his followers are loudmouthed. Since day one he focusses mainly on racial problems in the Netherlands, on many other subjects he simply doesn't show up to discus them. But if the focus lies on islamic problems, he is the first one in the stand. I am well educated, as are all my friends, collegues and business partners. Not a single relation of mine thinks the world of him, everybody hates his methods of getting his points clear. The movie was a farce in the eyes of many Dutchies.
But......as said before. The Netherlands has always been a very (extremely) liberal country. Attitude of almost all Dutch people is that nobody (foreign) should argue with them about their freedoms, including freedom of speech. Many studies proved that Dutch people think their freedom is the most important thing in the world. So this is why most Dutch people accept the film, but do not agree with the message. There was even a site called 'www.sorryvoordefilm.nl' which translates to 'sorry about the movie'. This was meant to say sorry for all people who feel offended by one persons actions.
The islamic parties here in the Netherland do steer to open debates regarding the subject. However, Wilders is pretty clever in how to deal with this. He doesn't want an open debate with muslims, he doesn't want the risk of being 'exposed as a fraud'. He only wants to talk about it in our parliament. I respect the attitude of the islamic parties/organisations very much here in Holland. Although they feel offended, they still urge for debate instead of harsh actions.
I live in Utrecht, a very nice city in the Netherlands. My area neighbours to a city-area with many problems. Every night people from that district come to my district. As a result cars are broken into, shopwindows are molested. People are threatened. Most of the times marrocan youth are responsible for this. Not always, but still very often. And this leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many Dutch people. And religion has nothing to do with it, though some aspects does feed the negative feelings. I think many Dutchies are afraid it all goes from bad to worse the next couple of decades. And islamic threaths feed these negative feelings.
As for boycotting the Netherlands. I cannot understand why this should be a solution to the problem. It will not affect the steak of beef Wilders has lying on his plate every night. It will not affect Wilders' party. I will even not affect our national and local politics. It however does affect our economy, but perhaps also the economy of the country that boycots our products. I would think there are better methods to get Wilders to understand his error of judgement. Boycotting is not one of them (but since the US boycots when a country farts too loud, I can understand why this is a much used pressure method).
I have been to Malaysia for many times now. I even am webmaster of one of Holland's most populair Malaysian websites. Every year I help over 1.000 Dutch tourists with planning their trip to Malaysia. Since the movie I received dozens of e-mails asking my opinion about the risks of going to Malaysia at this moment. Dutch people are scared they are held responsible for this movie. I even got e-mails from people who already planned and booked their trip, but are now hesitating to go ahead. I tell them Malaysia is also a liberal country (for tourists), and that they should continue with their plans. I do however tell them to take extra caution, should things fire up while they are staying there. I do not want to advise people to stay away from Malaysia. Other webmasters with sites about other countries are doing the same (like Indonesia, where there are far more reactions to the film). I hope I am doing the right thing.
I will be heading to Malaysia in august/september 2008, just in time to catch another glimpse of Merdeka Day and Hari Raja in oct. 2008 smile.gif...me and the misses cannot wait...."
Hi Nuraina,
I am muslim too. I saw the clip and you must see the clip too. It is no big deal for me. The more we react to these type of provocation, the more of such clips or cartoons will b released in the future. The best is to ignore and teach our muslims to enhance our faith in Allah so that we are not easily distracted by sideshows and gimmicks. Cheers
"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom. The freedom to criticise ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society and a law which attempts to say you can criticise and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed." - Rowan Atkinson
More at my blog:
http://surind.blogspot.com
Freedom Forever!
I have many Dutch friends in my years in the dredging industry overseas and here in Malaysia and I find them very innovative and hardworking people very forthright with their opinions and very proud of their country.
I for one would not boycott goods from Holland just because a silly bugger and poor excuse of a Dutchman produce this Fitna short movie. We would actually be honoring this idiot if we boycott Dutch goods and we would not achieve anything beside just venting our anger to other innocent Dutch people who has no part in the disgusting film.
Besides, America and Britain invaded Iraq and killed hunreds and thousands of Muslims, I do not hear efforts by any Muslim nation boycotting Coca Cola and other American or British goods, so lets get real people.
I think its Ok if this idiot has a website or any website affliated to him and we just sent him our many curses and wish his soul to be sent to the lowest level of hell - Neraka Jahanam when he dies.
Human have such capacity to do good and show great compassion, yet they also have such capacity to do evil.
One research points this to the fact that human have the ability to emphatise with fellow human beings.
Thus they go to great length and sacrifice for another human beings, as we feel for them.
However, this ability to emphatise can be switched off. And one of the big switch is "tribal" behaviour. It is as if when another humans of another tribe, is less a human.. thus we lose our ability to emphatise.
Once we lose this ability, we're not much difference from animal.
Two of the biggest "tribal" forces is Race and Religion.
And this has been used again and again by UMNO/BN by playing the sentiments on Race and Religion.
God forgive us if we ever turn animal.
Nuraina, just dropped by YouTube and watch that disgusting film. Wilders is obviously full of hate and as the title says - it's fitnah. The distortions are obvious even to non muslims. It's graphic - I stopped the video towards the end because I didn't want to see the execution of the hostage. It is an irresponsible film and you wonder why he chose to make it. Would I boycott Dutch products? Of course not - why punish a whole nation for the antics of one?
Zahid is ridiculous. What he is really saying is "Blog about something else, don't tell the world about us politicians. We want things the way it was - we don't want transparency. We want you to read newspapers instead of the blogs, that's what we want you to know!". Instead of living in denial, the government should start making improvements. Don't tell us what you want to do - Just do it ! I think I'd heard enough rhetorics to last a lifetime.
Wilders associates three (if I remember correctly) verses in the Koran with the actions and words of extremist Muslims (e.g. 9/11, beheadings, etc). Context, interpretation and causality are not explored.
Those Muslims depicted are a danger to all peace-loving people, and so is Wilders.
He goes on to highlight some customary practices of some cultures that also practice Islam (e.g. 'honor' killing, FGM) and suggests that the Netherlands is being taken over by Muslims who will impose these practices.
Mostly, his rather pathetic film relies on a spurious 'guilt by association' argument: i.e. some Muslims are evil villains, therefore Islam is evil.
Hantu Laut,
I take exception to this..
"The difference between the Bible and Koran,Christians and Muslims is that the Christians took the Bible as a sacred story book of the religion while Muslims took the Koran as sacred manual of the religion."
...So, you are saying that Muslims are more serious about their sacred book than Christians, giving the "manual" vs "story book" argument ? On what basis do you say so...
Indeed the Old Testament is mostly about old Jewish / Mosaic Laws and their severity is as cruel as what is depicted in Koran, as they came from the same root. Yet, if you read the whole context and includes the New Testament, you will understand why such Mosaic Laws are already discarded.
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"... read this up in John 8:2~11
... and you will understand why Christianity promotes compassion and forgiveness... while being firm ly against sin...
Ironically Judaism, Christianity and Islam all came from the same root, Abraham (or Ibrahim) being the first to profess that there is only one God and no other God, which is the basic tenet of these 3 religion.
Yet, it can spawn into such wide interpretation.... and shows the fallibility and the sinfulness of man...
Therefore, "judge not, lest ye be judged yourself" - Matthew 7:1
Always think for yourself, and not let others do the thinking for you. This way, religion is at its purest form and unadulterated by human interpretation.
Before an opinion is formed or a comment made on the short film Fitna by Geert Wilders (or anything for that matter), the evidence (the content of the material) must be given due consideration. Otherwise, we are being prejudicial.
Therefore, before minds are made and opinions offered:
We should watch the film to know and understand what is being conveyed, whether the content is distorted and inaccurate (and how so) or whether, for example, the Quranic verses described in the film is accurate/correct. Is it truly taken out of context? We should be able to scrutinise the content of the film and ask ourselves whether what is shown in the film is fake or made-up (e.g., the young girl's comments in it), or unacceptably distasteful for the eyes and feelings of the people.
We should watch it to obtain an understanding of the aim of the author, or the message this person is trying to convey, and whether the message that he is trying to convey is fair or unfair, or whether it is blasphemous or merely descriptive of the point that is being made by the film.
To unthinkingly react to the film without viewing the evidence and without judging it just for what it is (e.g., hailing the film as fully instructional of all that Islam stands for, or conversely, to label it as an outright hateful anti-Islam propaganda) is wrong.
A calm, collected, rational, educated and point-by-point counterargument to the argument made in the film would be the best way to balance the viewpoint delivered and dispel any erroneous understanding of Islam amongst the people. A purely antagonistic reaction (e.g., boycott, caustic denunciations) garners little effect or respect. In fact, it might further bolster the erroneous views or distrust of the people towards Islam. This we must work hard to avoid.
With ragard to 'Fitna', the Muslim world has nothing to worry about this low quality film by Geert Wilder.
Only fools and low IQ followers (and correspondingly non-believers) will be quick to shout 'Jihad' and take to the streets in protests.
Have faith that there there are far more fair minded humans in this world than bigots. After all, when Dan Brown came out with Da Vinci Code and the movie was screened wordwide, including in Muslim nations, the Christian Ummah did not declare another Crusade!!
I, a non-Muslim, am one of those who firmly believes that the majority Muslim moderates will hold firm, stand in solidarity and triumph over the more extremist minority elements in their religion
After all you have the unwavering support of the majority among the non-Muslim world (who make up 75% of th eworld's population)who desire only peace, and that of the Dutch Govt. which has condemned 'Fitna.'
yeaterday, all bloggers were scum; today BN calls 'fellow Muslim bloggers' to join hands!!
'oh, what a tangled web we weave,
when we seek to deceive.'
don't trust BN. tomorrow 'big brother' will compile a secret master data base and it will be 'brave new world' all over again. beware!!
Salam Kak Ena,
Islam, belongs to Allah. I'm sure Allah will deal with the Dutch guy sooner or later. The best we can do is to voice our disapproval to the film.
As Muslims, we're only required to react in order to defend ourselves. There's no life threatening situation here. It's not fair to put the blame on the people of Netherland for the conduct of one person. What about our Muslim brothers and sisters in Netherland? Do we have to put the blame on them too?
Kak Ena, we have to remember when our Prophet got pelted with stones by the people of Taif, he reacted by praying for the people of Taif. In the end, the people of Taif became good Muslims until today.
As for Zahid's comment, he have to understand that we did not condemn the government. We only condemn the wrongdoings did by the people who runs the government. There's a big difference there.
By the way, since when UMNO became the defender of Islam?
Maybe Geert Wilders should not have made the film, maybe it is good thing he did it.
Geert Wilders made the film in response to actual violence that had taken place all over the world not from his imagination.
There is no smoke without fire, and from the cries of the extremists, it is obvious that they are motivated by verses from the Qu'ran.
There are more than 600 verses that are related to violence and cruelties in the Qu'ran. The gullible majority are easily influenced by these negative verses. It is only a minority that are spiritually matured to discern the negatives from the positives.
Holy books are normally the security blanket to immortality. It can be very psychologically painful not to abide what is written (+ve or -ve) in the book. For the gullible, it is best to follow whatever that is written in the book rather than apply critical thinking to find the correct interpretation.
The significance is that appx. 80% of religious followers are gullible. As for Islam, that would be 960 millions, at 10% it is 120 millions. It is normal for 10% of any normal group to be mentally sick, 1% are schizo or psychopaths.
It would quite an impossible task to discuss rationality with the immature and mentally sick and expect them to change.
It is said that, if you want to change others, one must first change oneself.
The first thing muslims should do is to change themselves and especially to get rid of the 600+ verses related to violence and cruelties in the Qu'ran. They do not contribute to the spirituality of the followers at all other than to influence him/her to violence and hell (matyrdom?.
The supposedly words of god must be changed based on common sense. Holy books must be 100% foolproof to violence and evil.
I think Geert Wilders' case is more of a situation where sometimes it need to be cruel to be kind.
Salam Puan Nuraina,
Firstly, on Zahid's comment about bloggers condemning the government. Hah! Bloggers jugak yg salah ye, En. Zahid.
Secondly, on the issue of Wilders attack on Islam. Such attack has been going on from the very first day Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. openly called on the Arabs in Mecca to accept the faith. History has shown that it will continue to happen. But what has the worldwide Muslim community done? While we profess that Islam is the compassionate and peaceful way of life, the divisiveness of Muslims all over the world has not shown it to be so. It is therefore ironic that it takes a non-believer to make Muslims rally together. A bitter pill to swallow, indeed...
Do good to people who has done bad to us....that's Islam.
You don't put out fire...with fire, do you?
I have not seen the film either. But to me it is all depend on his ultra motive. If his is to condemn the Al Quran as “evil revelation” from Almighty only to incite and motivate violent in this world (which supposed to include those the two world wars, the Jews holocaust, that was the works of fellow Muslim too? ) and to ridicule the faithful Muslims living on this earth since the creation of Adam, as he was the first Muslim ,according to Quran, let it be .That is his freedom .But remember The Al Quran has the solution for this kind of person. A faithful Muslim is only need to execute that’s all. Or at worst, we pray To Allah SWT and leave it to Almighty Allah SWT to deal with him after all that is also his creation. Amin
what if a Dutch film-maker were to make a movie that criticises Israel, or even Judaism, on the basis of "free speech"?
I would sure expect protests and many quarters coming down hard on the maker as "anti-semitic", and as experience shows, anything remotely dubbed "anti-semitic would be prohibited and banned int he western world.
I personally would support the call to boycott Dutch products - the country, and the society after all, allowed the film-maker of "Fitna" to go ahead, and after he has acted maliciously, just to offend Muslims on the basis of "free speech", to go scot-free.
One can't make a movie in the same genre of "Fitna" in Singapore or Malaysia, even for the sake of "free speech"; the society , as expressed through the laws wouldn't allow it.
[There are more than 600 verses that are related to violence and cruelties in the Qu'ran. The gullible majority are easily influenced by these negative verses. It is only a minority that are spiritually matured to discern the negatives from the positives.}
My comment:
If you really understand and have the faith (after all faith is a special given privilege and bestowed by Allah only to whom He has chosen to have the faith-non other ) there is no “violent and cruelties” verses in the Al-Quran.
This is only a Fitna .Only those non - believers who have successfully pre-empted their mind with prejudices and armed themselves against believing any truth revealed by the Alquran when they attempt to read the Al-Quran, would be firmly and persistently repeat and spread this Fitna.
For those who read Al-Quran with intention to find the real truth, Insyaalah he will be guided and find the truth in the end as already shown by many previous converts who some of them have become good mubaligh.
But for those who read Al-Quran with the intention of finding its flaws and weaknesses, of cause The Almighty Allah would “ cheat” them into believing that they found one and they would forever be misled and be amongst the non believers forever until the end of his life.
If you think you can change the “negative verse” be it .After all Allah Has put up the challenge in the Al-Quran in one of the Verses .Have you read it?
This rabid Dutch politician is a mirror image of some so-called Muslim leaders in our own country who only know how to spread ignorance, fear, and hate - instead of wider knowledge, understanding and love. All religions are essentially Belief Systems, which are culturally encoded programmes (or prepackaged software) designed to control the emotional responses and social behaviour of their adherents. In the digital age we have the opportunity to grasp the significance of indoctrination and programming (let's call it encoding) - and the option of deactivating, bypassing or deleting these destructive programmes. Therein lies the true meaning of freedom - to be free of inherited or acquired belief systems that no longer serve our evolution towards universal ethics and aesthetics.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/St0rmFury/1197902160677.jpg
two wrongs dont make a right
folks,
i still haven't seen the film. but from what i have read about it (and from talking to people who have seen it), wilders took the verses out of context, in fact, excluding certain lines to suit his aim -- which is, of course, to demonise Islam, in the name of free speech and expression.
i'm sorry...i will not watch the film just for the sake of debating on the issue.
wilder had bad intentions. the film was "bad" because it misused the holy verses of the quran to show the world, to amplify to everyone what a terible religion Islam is, and, I suppose, to make non-Muslims not only suspicious of Islam and Muslims but to hate Islam and Muslims.
Perhaps, wilders has achieved his objective.
really, i don't think i want to watch it.
i'd not watch any film that demonises any religion, anyway. i don't see the point.
if someone had told me about the film minus the details, maybe i would have.
but now, what would it serve? just so i can tell people, "yeah...i've watched that film."
like it would make me more intelligent? enrich my knowledge?
maybe....but there are other films, books, blogs....
read http://mymines.blogspot.com/2008/04/fitnaindeed.htm
I'm non muslim and although I did catch snippets of the film, I didn't bother to watch the whole film because a piece of thrash put together by a racist retard like Wilders should not be given any notice.
His intention was solely to provoke outrage and mass protests from muslims so that he can then say smugly to the world " See what I told you about Muslims?" It is well known that he is rabidly against Muslim immigration into Holland and will stoop to any level to achieve his agenda. People of his twisted mentality should be consigned to the scrap heap where he truly belongs.
In thiis era of increasing globalization we're talking about being citizens of Earth and not merely pigeonholed into white non-white, muslims, christians, buddhists etc.
The same goes for us in Malaysia where we're talking about a Malaysia for Malaysians and not just Malays, Chinese, Hindus etc. Like the song says A new day is dawning folks.
Nuraini,
Don't you think it is scary if these hate verses are in fact exist in the Holy Qur'an? By choosing not to watch Fitna yourself is actually 'not the right attitude'. One should face the problem in order to solve problem, not to run away from it.
If in fact those hate verses exist, I think Muslims should face it and clarify to non-Muslims so to alley their fears to Islam.
Geert Wilder is like the school bully. He's only doing this to provoke a negative and violent reaction that he fully expects from Muslims, knowing fully well this is the kind of reaction that will only serve to strengthen his point that Islam is violent.
Best thing to do is to ignore him and the movie. The less reaction, the better. But I have a feeling that many won't see the point.
petestop,
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey.
When I say the Muslims used the Koran as a manual, I meant the Muslims literally took the Koran and also the Hadith like a workshop manual or manual for your TV,video or whatever.Islam is a way of life and the Koran is the way to live, for all Muslims
My statement is not meant to offend Christianity.That's the least of my intention.
Muslims took directions from the Koran and Hadith as guidance to their daily lives.Christians used the Bible mainly for religious rituals and does not interfere with their daily lives.
I would suggest all Muslims to read the Bible.It doesn't make you a lesser Muslims if you do so.
I would like to send Zahid a message:
"You are a bloody Hypocrite."
I think those in Malaysia who want to boycott Dutch products are the biggest hypocrites in this planet right now. After all, where were their vocals when Muslims were behaving like fanatics against non Muslims in our own country? Flashback: underage conversion of children when daddy or mommy converts, kidnapping of babies and wives, snatching dead bodies, temple demolitions, etc etc etc.
Please clean up your own backyard first, Only then your holier than thou attitude can be bought.
http://orangewaves.blogspot.com/2008/04/fitna-dutch-and-malaysian-hypocrites.html
a rational people,
in other circumstances, yes, i would agree with you.
but in this, no.
first and foremost -- no I don;t have to watch the film to know what it is. i have been told my many Muslims -- more scholarly and learned than I -- that the some of verses used by Wilders were taken out of context to fit his context, and some of these verses were changed.. some lines were ommitted.
as a Muslim, I will help allay your fear (I assume you are a non-Muslim) -- there are no hate verses in Islam. Islam does not promote violence.
Just google for "quranic translation" in the internet. There are reliable and credible ones. Compare those verses used by Wilders with the translated verses.
I don;t have to do that. It is not me that Wilders want to influence.
Wilders -- a right-wing anti-Muslim parliamentarian -- is simply defaming and demonising Islam through a badly-made film.
But thank you for your thoughts.
a rational people,
i meant -- there are no hate verses in the Quran.
thank you.
Nuraina,
you mentioned that the dutch were very open, free and....
actually, i think the dutch are the most racist group of people around.(sorry to generalise, i am sorry to the minorities of dutch who are now). If we look through history, the dutch have always considered the natives in all the colonies to be'slaves' and lesser beings....even today the dutch has a superiority complex(they even think of themselves as better than any others - even europeans(or whites). Basically, these guys are just plain bigots....
Nuraina,
Thank you for your response. I choose to believe you that 'there is no hate verses' in the Holy Qur'an. The thing is in Haris's blog, someone named SV Singam has commented that 'hate verses do exist in the Holy Qur'an but he further commented that the existence of such sentences does not suggest that the holy text promotes hatred. [refer Fitna(3)].
Anyway, I hope someone of authority and well verse in Holy Qur'an (I don't mean you or SV Singam are not well verse) can come out to explain about the so-called 'hate verses' instead of response to Fitna by way of anger or threat. The way Muslims response to Fitna speak a lot the 'behaviour' of themselves. I mean they can just respond to it by saying 'there is no hate verses in the Holy Quran, contents of Fitna are not well researched'.
All in all, how nice if all of us can practise our faiths in peace and not involve religion in politics and administration of a country. I sincerely hope politicians of Pakatan Rakyat can consider this seriously.
We Malaysians have put aside our differences in race and religion in the just concluded 12th GE and I believe we can continue to do the same thing for Malaysia.
Again, Nuraina, watch Fitna yourself, no harm.
Saudara Shahbandarmalakat said at 10:41 am: "But for those who read Al-Quran with the intention of finding its flaws and weaknesses, of cause The Almighty Allah would “ cheat” them into believing that they found one and they would forever be misled and be amongst the non believers forever until the end of his life."
I think this is a very poor claim of the intentions of the Almighty. It implies that He is spiteful in nature. I think one should be careful not to make interpretations such as this. Allah would truly be all-merciful and compassionate, and would never act out of malice to mislead or "cheat" his own creation whatever their earthly mistakes, Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
Kak Nuraina,
I think a number of commenters have made a very pertinent point: that a large number of Muslims would (and do) indeed take seemingly angry verses from the Quran literally. It is sad but it is reflected in attitude: for example, suspicion or hidden disdain (i.e.,to regard as inferior to themselves) towards "non-believers", etc.
We should work to eliminate such attitudes, regardless of of our religion, for it does us all no good.
a rational people,
thank you for the suggestion that i watch "Fitna"...
i try not to watch bad, violent films.
especially this type.
i was told, i won;t be missing anything....
Nuraina,
Frankly, I am quite disappointed that you decided not to see Fitna. In any case, I still believe 'to see with my own eyes, and hear with my own ears' so to be convinced at certain things, as 'hear-say' may subject to wrong interpretation. You agree with me on this?
Anyway, without offence to any Muslim friend here, very often Muslims reacting to the so-called offensive materials without looking into the materials themselves, but on hear-say. This is why I said I am quite disappointed with you in this sense. But again, no offence, it is your choice.
We should adopt the attitude of your commentator, Baron Strawberrymunchen. His approach is the right one in solving an issue.
A Rational People,
I'm sorry to disappoint you. It's ok, really that I have not seen the film.
I will not be discussing the artistic merits or demerits of the film with anyone.
The fact that Wilders is a rightwing racist is not my assumption but is well-known documented fact.
WHat can I possibly gain by watching this film? A deepr understanding of Islam? A deeper understanding of racism and prejudice?
It's a bad film that I don't think I'd want to waste my time (watching).
You see, when there was so much controversy surrounding "Passion of Christ", yes...I went to great length to watch it. I wanted to see what the fuss.
It was a good film.
Again. thank you for visiting.
Nuraina,
Thanks for introducing me to "Passion of Christ". I will definitely go to 'see and hear myself'. I won't take your word that 'it was a good film'.
By the way, from where you know 'Wilders is a rightwing racist'? I don't even know who is Wilders before Fitna appears in youtube.
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