The Herald (the Catholic weekly) has already been ordered not to use the word in its Malay edition as part of conditions for it to be allowed to continue publishing in English, Chinese and Tamil.
The order came last month from the government.
Home Minister Syed Hamid issued a warning on Wednesday. He said the Herald should, until the court makes its ruling, abide by the order to not use the word "Allah".
PUTRAJAYA: The Home Ministry may take legal action against the Catholic weekly, Herald, over its continued use of the word "Allah" in this week's issue.
"We should abide by the law and the government's decision. The decision to ban the use of the word 'Allah' in its publication does not come from the ministry but from the cabinet.
"If anything happens, then don't put the blame on us. I will refer this matter to our legal unit."
The weekly's editor, Father Lawrence Andrew, was quoted by AFP as saying on Tuesday that he intended to continue doing so until the court rules on the issue next month.
The government last month ordered a ban on the Herald's Malay edition until the court makes its decision, as part of conditions for it to be allowed to continue publishing in English, Chinese and Tamil.
Andrew had also said Munshi Abdullah, the father of modern Malay literature, translated the Bible into Malay in 1852 and he also translated the word "God" as "Allah".
"So, there is strong historical proof of what has been used for centuries.
Click here to continue.
I didn't realize that Bahasa Malaysia has been used so extensively in churches or in their newsletters in the country for a long time.
Now I know.
The case is pending a ruling so I shan't make any comments on it.
But I'm just wondering why the Herald is defying a government order to continue using the word "Allah"?
I don't usually agree with the government's ban on issues, but on this one, I'd have to say that the ruling is acceptable.
100 comments:
Muhammad bin Abdullah became a prophet when he was 40 year old. He preached to idols worshippers, 'Allah, The God, The One and The Only'.
Prophet Muhammad father's name literally means, "Slave of God". He lived at the time when people had forgotten previous prophet message of One God.
http://votecharles.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/the-word-allah-is-not-a-monopoly-of-umno/
Why, pray tell, do you find the ban acceptable? And could you please also enlighten us whether the word "Allah" really is a Bahasa Malaysia word, as you seem to imply? I doubt that it is or that it has its origins in Bahasa Malaysia.
Rom Nain
Mind you, most of the christian bumiputeras in sabah and sarawak use Bahasa Malaysia as medium of communication. There are services in Bahasa Malaysia just to cater the Malay speaking bumiputeras. We use Indonesian version Bible where it uses Allah for God. Lets try not to be too ignorant once in awhile.
You wonder why? Simple! Because Allah word does not belongs to the Malaysian Muslim govt. alone!!
WHy are the Muslim here so uptight about the use of Allah by other religion? It only prove how insecure and weak their faith are! Allah is not copyrighted to Malaysian Muslim, please. Even in Indonesia, biggest Muslim country, the Christians are using Allah without problem.
Heard of 'Innocent until proven guilty'? Unless the court decision said Herald should not use Allah, now Herald has the right to use Allah.
Why do you say that the ruling is acceptable?
Why the ruling acceptable? Surely there must be reasons to it.
Their defiant because the ministry did not rationalize with the herald but instead simply say "it is cabinet decision"
Not everything can be done through legal process, surely in managing this issue, there are many other approaches that the ministry and the other party can come to term with. So how!!!, just sweep under the carpet and business as usual- ok la, I am in charge!!!dh9753
kak aina,
there are people who will going to misuse the ALLAH name if we let them to use.
for instance, there are kid readings (from Indonesia, circulated in Malaysia) with Allah in there, preaches about Yesus.
And definitely some people will misunderstood later.
So, what you are saying is:
Allah © Government of Malaysia
Since when the word 'Allah' or any word for that matter belongs to the government for them to ban it?
I find it ironic why this has become such a huge issue in Malaysia. What difference does it make if the Catholic religion choose to use the term Allah? After all does religion not profess there is ONE Almighty? Not ten, not four.. just one.
Its not like the Herald is abusing His name in anyway. Why should a century of practices change just because some find it offensive? Is religion about terms or is it about your faith and your practices?
The term does not solely belong to just one particular faith. It belongs to all who believe above all else that there is one God regardless of what His followers call him.
Why is the ruling acceptable?
sim kwang yang
FEAR GOD & LOVE MAN
Remember to fear God rather than man
For the wrath of God is greater than that of man
After all God is the creator while the created is man
While we all want to love God let us also learn to love our fellow man
(C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng - 230109
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Fri. 23rd Jan. 2009.
Though Indonesia is a big country with a vast majority muslim population it is a secular country and not an islamic country.There is no monopoly of the Arabic word for God, Allah, to be use only by Muslim and Christian churches use Allah freely.Similarly, Malaysia is a secular country as implied in the Constitution.It is only the previous PM who unilaterally and pompously declared that Malaysia is an islamic country.So, it is not surprising that the Government decide to monopolise the Arabic word for Malaysian muslim only!
Muslim 'dakwah' movements in Malaysia had never included non-Muslims in their progrmammes.
There are many reasons or this and one of them is surely to respect sensitivities of the other believers.
As examples, Usrah programmes in colleges are restricted only to Muslim students.All ceramah programmes in mosques had never touched on extending dakwah to non muslims.Even the tabligh movement who go from house to house calling muslim men to the mosque, avoids non Muslim houses.
The Perkim organisation are set up mainly to assist those who had already decided to convert or had already converted to equip them with adequate knowlegde of Islam.
Therefore, the actions and demands of the Herald are simply bewildering.
I totally agree with the ban on the use of the word Allah in the bible. There is no reason why the Herald should use the word Allah when the word tuhan is more appropriate. It should be noted that in the Malaysian context the word for God in Bahasa Malaysia is Tuhan, and the word God for Muslims is Allah.
No doubt that in the Arab world God is translated as Allah but that is because that is the Arabic term. Herald is not using the Arabic language, in Bahasa Malaysia the word for God is Tuhan. Thus Herald should stick to Tuhan.
Hail to YOU Kak Ena for not trying to appear liberal, educated or what have you and just swallow whatever argument they put forth.
I don't know why, but I have this uneasy feelings that its a "in" thing these days to use the slightest excuse to test the water.
Sometimes they forgot that its not just the government that they are provoking and really, I am not amused.
Well to me I don't see the reason or need for a Christian publication to use the the word.
I grew up in Malaysia in a very cosmopolitan neighbourhood. I always thought that the divine name"Allah" meant the one and only God, the Creator.That this was the Malay word for God. Why can't a non-Muslim use this precious to call for his/her God. All religions have THE ONE purpose don't they.
You see, all this so called "rational" bloggers such as the owner of this blog, the stupid rccky are all actually bloody irational idiots when come to dealing with muslim and race matters. The reason is of course malaysian upbringing (much of it influenced by mamak/umno - these idiots really respect him)
Non muslims...you can stop using the "Allah" word instead "Moon GOD"
Cheeeeezzz
Put it another way around, let say the malaysian gov't has decided to come up with a new "malaysianized way of calling Allah" (that nobody can claim of historical reason or whatever), and banned Moslems in Malaysia from using the word Allah. Do you think the Malaysian Moslems would defy the gov't?? Do you then think that the Malaysian gov't is denying moslems of religious rights? N meddling into moslems affairs?
In Malaysia, we talked of using the national language, but when it come to religious issue, it has consistently been banning, banning, ban, ban.....
Honestly, i wondered how is malaysian gov't / the BN cabinet control the christian bumis from using the word "allah"? Would there be ISA squad team snooping around, or would the gov't come up with a mind control device that forces all christian bumis to wear on their heads......very interesting......
There is no other reason except to provoke.
Why disturb sleeping tigers when there is no reason to?
These little things usually create tensions amongst the less rational beings and it is better to prevent than to seek cure.
Common sense should prevail and although the Home Minister has been portrayed in bad light, I think this is one of the better statements from him.
It will be difficult to diffuse a tense situation, more so with the many 'batu api' supporters.
Use the brains. It helps.
A GOOD MAN DOES NOTHING.
No wonder Indonesia laughed at Malaysia. Remember the song Rasa Sayang and the melody of your National Anthem?
Ena,
I am re-posting my comment to avoid being associated with the other anonymous......
Muslim 'dakwah' movements in Malaysia had never included non-Muslims in their programmes.
There are many reasons or this and one of them is surely to respect sensitivities of the other believers.
As examples, Usrah programmes in colleges are restricted only to Muslim students.All ceramah programmes in mosques had never touched on extending dakwah to non muslims.Even the tabligh movement who go from house to house calling muslim men to the mosque, avoids non Muslim houses.
The Perkim organisation are set up mainly to assist those who had already decided to convert or had already converted to equip them with adequate knowlegde of Islam.
Therefore, the actions and demands of the Herald are simply bewildering.
"Anonymous said...
There is no other reason except to provoke.
Why disturb sleeping tigers when there is no reason to?
These little things usually create tensions amongst the less rational beings and it is better to prevent than to seek cure.
Common sense should prevail and although the Home Minister has been portrayed in bad light, I think this is one of the better statements from him.
It will be difficult to diffuse a tense situation, more so with the many 'batu api' supporters.
Use the brains. It helps.
A GOOD MAN DOES NOTHING."
Provoke?
Please don't forget that the Tribune had been using the word Allah for so many years and no body is upset - except the Home Ministry that brought up the issue.
Now, tell me who is the one who provoke?
mm..what if Christians start using 'Eloh' which is Aramaic instead of 'Allah' which is of Arabic origin' try to pronounce both of them. Don't you find they sound the same? and yet, this is the Eloh that Christians worship. See, the logic now? Ironically, Bibles in Iban version which triggered a controversy few years back; the ban on using 'Allah Taala' in its printing was somehow lifted after about 2 weeks, without court thingy. So, why the double standard? Dun tell me the Christians would be banned from using/opting for 'Eloh' too, should they obey the court ruling and stop using 'Allah'.. come on, think.. Eloh=Allah..people, it's just a matter of logic.
Ena,
Allah is the word for God in Arabic.
Kenapa tak gunakan perkataan "Tuhan"?
Saya ingin tahu apakah motif mereka?
Hanya satu sahaja yang saya boleh fikirkan. Provokasi... provokasi yang sudah tentunya akan menyentu sentimen umat Islam di negara ini.
Hi Nuraina,
Do explain why you agree with this ban.
Allah, like God, is a noun. It's merely the Malay translation of the English word God.
Which God/Allah you pray or worship to is entirely up to you. Your God/Allah knows.
At least that was what i thought.
I am quite certain that this is the definition used in Indonesia as well.
Do let me know
Saradiba,
what about the God of the the hindus, and orang asli, and buddhist, and all the other religions. Does the Malayasian Malay language has separate translation of the word "god" for each?
After this what next Noraina? Remove the world Allah from 300-year-old Granth Sahib?
Come on, grow up Malaysia...
"Malaysian Sikhs fight to retain 'Allah' in Granth Sahib"
("The Times of India", July 5, 2008)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia - A Sikh group in Muslim-majority Malaysia is demanding the right to use the world "Allah" as a synonym for God and has joined a legal battle by Christians against a government order banning non-Muslims from using it, an official said on Friday.
The Malaysian Gurdwaras Council filed an application at the Kuala Lumpur High Court on Tuesday seeking to join a suit by the Herald, a Roman Catholic newspaper, against the government over use of the word "Allah", said council president Sardar Jagir Singh.
The home ministry previously ordered the newspaper not to use the word "Allah" in its Malay-language publication as a translation for God, saying using the word would confuse Muslims. The Herald then filed suit, claiming it had a right to use the word.
Jagir said his council, representing more than 100,000 Sikhs, wanted to join the suit because the ruling would affect them.
The word Allah appears on "numerous occasions" in the Sikh holy book, Guru Granth Sahib, he said. "Not a word can be altered. It's our holiest book ... it will mean we can't practice our own religion."
Jagir said so far he has not received a court date. The high court is scheduled next Wednesday to hear the applications of several Islamic institutions that have applied to intervene in the suit to defend the ban.
The Herald says "Allah" is an Arabic word that predates Islam and has been used for centuries to mean God in Malay.
The government has not explained how the use of "Allah" by other religions would confuse Muslims, but apparently wants to draw a sharp distinction between the Islamic God and all other deities.
The case is an example of increasing complaints by religious minorities in Malaysia that their rights have been undermined by government efforts to bolster the status of Islam, the country's official religion.
The Sikh Guru Granth Sahib says many things which is totally against Islam, maybe you guys don't know and that is why there are no street protests against Sikhs in Malaysia.
Read on Noraina, and you will be surprised ....
"I observe neither Hindu fasting nor the ritual of the Muslim Ramadan month; Him I serve who at the last shall save. The Lord of universe of the Hindus, Gosain and Allah to me are one; From Hindus and Muslims have I broken free. I perform neither Kaaba pilgrimage nor at bathing spots worship; One sole Lord I serve, and no other. I perform neither the Hindu worship nor the Muslim prayer; To the Sole Formless Lord in my heart I bow. We neither are Hindus nor Muslims; Our body and life belong to the One Supreme Being who alone is both Ram and Allah for us." (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib, Raga Bhairon pg. 1136)
so means allah belong to malaysia?
oh......plz la....dun be too cruel..even indonesia not like this...
buat ini salah, buat itu salah..
semua salah...
Do Christians refer to God as "Allah" in their every day prayers and in church? Honestly, I've not heard a sermon (in English) where "Allah" is used in place of God in church. I watched the movie Gran Torino starring Clint Eastwood. Sermons and conversations with the young Father. Not one word of "Allah". How come I've never heard anyone say that Jesus is the son of "Allah"? What I know is Jesus is the Son of God.
Funny how some people find ways to politicize this. Well, go ahead. YB Charles Santiago, the MP of Klang, issued a statement the other day saying that Syed Hamid was trying to make "Allah" a Malay/Umno copyright. I don't think the Umno Malays are the only ones suspicious of the Church's motive for wanting to use the word "Allah".
By the way, anyone knows what PAS' stand on this is?
ADAM AND EVE = ADAM DAN HAWA
JESUS = ISA
JACOB = YAKOB
MOSES = MUSA(IGP)
ABRAHAM = IBRAHIM (ANWAR)
DAVID = DAUD
MARY = MARIAM
JOSEPH = YUSOF
ETC..
MUSLIM BELIVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF JESUS (NABI ISA) AND HIS MOTHER
MARY (MARIAM) AND THAT JESUS IS ONLY A PROPHET.
FORMER MB OF NS IS MOHD ISA (JESUS)
CURRENT MB OF PERLIS MAT ISA (JESUS)
LOTS OF OTHER MUSLIM USES THE NAME OF JESUS (ISA)
THE SIMILARITY BETWEEN THESE TWO GREAT RELIGION CANNOT BE OVERLOOK.
WHAT IS ALL THE FUSS ABOUT ??
I am 45 years old. When I was ten - a large group of Sabahans from the police force joined our church congregation and a Malay language session and sermon was organised for them. I attended the sermon as well and can vouch that the term Tuhan Allah was used liberally. No one said anything then - I don't see why it should become an issue now.
What the Law say about this, both civil and shariah law ..are this a provocation by herald?
To be fair under what law when they ban al arqam...
Fear not the almighty lord Allah but to fall in love with Allah the creator of the universe. Allah is the unifying factor of human kind, why fight ? we should be sharing and that is the only way to make this world peaceful ... look at Obama he has started it openly. can we love all human beings despite of gender, religion, race etc. We are just a soul in this body called human and will go back to the creator when chosen and answerable for our good or bad conduct . Brothers and sisters what ever your religion is, live a true life and preach truth in your action, please understand fully your religion and learn others- May Allah blessed and show us the right path.
Allah, Tuhan, God. What's the difference? Some people address me differently, because some find it hard to pronounce my name. But I am the same person. So I don't see what's the difference when it comes to Allah? Even if the ban is upheld, for the word Allah, not to be used in the Herald, it surely won't stop the Catholic community in using the word Allah during the Sunday services in church. I am really curious if Allah is really angry with the publisher of the Herald for using the word Allah in print? I don't really think so. May Allah (God) bless all those reading and posting comments on this blog. Amen.
Do you find the ruling acceptable because you think the majority of Muslims in this country are idiots?
I wonder if they translate Jesus to Allah in the Arabic version of bibble.
Nope, while Allah is not a Malay word, even though it can be written in Rumi writing but that doesn't mean that one can simply write whatever they feel as right when doing translation.
And stop comparing Malaysia with Indonesia or any other Malay/Indonesian speaking country. It's their rules and govern but their own government. It's their right to use whatever names they wanted to use in the translated version.
They even have inter marriages between different religion without having to convert. But that is their way. Just because as a foreigner some of the commentator feels that they need to compared us with Indonesian doesn't mean that we need to follow what those people say.
the Malays has this idiom, kalau masuk kandang kerbau menguak, kalau masuk kandang kambing mengembek, which quite the same like when in Rome do as what the Romans do, or something to the effect.
oh by the way, Tuhan in bahasa Malaysia / Melayu means God. So why do you have to use Allah to translate Jesus for? Just use Jesus as Jesus. It's His name and what he Christians call Him anyway.
no race or community can claim they own a word or definition. This is the most preposterous ilogical reasoning. If he gomen think there might, and I say might until it is proven, cause confusion amongst Muslims, then educate them not to be confused. The English cannot say they own the English language and ban non-English for speaking English words? ! After all, BM uses so many Sanskrit, Hindu words and English too like tv, I, You, talipon ! Many Arabic Christians and Turks also use Allah, have been doing so for centuries.
Allah-for-All
I totally agree with Saridba...Please use Tuhan .That is the correct translation of God in Bahasa...Of course you can Your God Allah but please be consistent..make sure All your bibles in all languages in the world be changed to Allah...Otherwise if you strict your usage only in Malay bible you appear to me to be "ada udang di sebalik batu"
Now it is very clear to me ...this is an admission by the Christian that all this while Isa ( Jesus) prayed to One Almighty God Called Allah , no other God but Allah as per Alquran .This also the same God Adam , Moses and others prophets prayed and worshiped to.If this is so then please make a declaration worldwide so that no more confusion.
Pas Wilayah Persekutuan akan memulakan kempen himpunan 100 ribu membantah PPSMI dengan mengadakan ceramah khas pada 1 hb Februari 2009, Ahad, jam 9 malam, di Markas Tarbiah Pas Pusat Taman Melewar Kuala Lumpur.
Pemidato utama ialah Naib Presiden Pas, Tuan Hj Mohamad Sabu dan Prof Abdullah Hassan (UPSI).
War-warkan dan datang beramai-ramai tanda sokongan anda.
Daulatkan Bahasa Melayu.
Makluman : SABTU 7 Mac 2009 Tarikh Perhimpunan Raksasa Menentang PPSMI oleh GMP
KAK ENA,
jika sering btonton sinetron indonesia di tv malaysia - pemainnya ada menyebut ALLAH dan TUHAN saja,
Ini kerana tidak semua orang Indonesia rumpun melayu beragama ISLAM. daripada nama mereka kita pun sukar nak tewntukan dia islam atau tidak.
jadi dalam sinetron kita dpt agak2 jika pemainnya ISLAM atau bukan. yang ISLAM akan menyebut ALLAH dan bukan ISLAM dengan TUHAN saja
friends,
thank you for your honesty, and thank you for appreciating mine.
many of you sound so disturbed by my remarks that i find acceptable the ban to not use the word "Allah" until the court makes its decision.
you asked me why it is acceptable? why isn't it?
what is so difficult in just holding on a while until the court makes its ruling known.
if the court rules that the herald can use the word "Allah", by all means, go ahead. Use it.
why the insistence on defying the ruling?
excuse me if i have my suspicions of your insistence on using the word "Allah" which we all know is God to Muslims.
"There is no other God but Allah SWT....."
I do have the right to have suspicions, as you do of me for making the remarks.
Some of you have made your own interpretation of my remarks.
I'm not even going to debate on whether or not "Allah" is anyone's exclusive right to use. You can go ahead and debate that till kingdom come.
Besides, some of you do not seem to be receptive to views that differ from your own.
You can't even accept my view. But that is your right.
how easily you veer from my remarks. and what i must surely mean.
and do i have to explain the origins blah blah blah? oh, don't mock me. Nor yourself.
Understand this. I am not going to bedrawn into any polemics.
thank you.
To all the Christians, if you have even the slightest ulterior motive in wanting to use the word Allah in your preaching, all I can say is just stop wasting your time praying, because I don't think your God like your deed.
While to those Christians who are sincere in wanting to use the word Allah, I pray that Allah SWT will open up their heart and soul to embrace Islam.
Aminnnn....
YgArif
If Syed Hamid Albar cannot issue such a ban on the use of the word Allah on Malay Bibles imported from Indonesia, then beyond a cheap one- upmenship, to titillate the egos of ill informed this ban serves no further function.
Fact is, all Malay Bibles in Malaysia are imported from Indonesia and they all use Allah as they have been for over a hundred years and since long befor Syed Hamid Alba'r ancestors even had heard that the world actually extends beyond their shoddy village.
And just in case he wants to get a little more worked up about this, there are Arabic Bibles and they do use Allah there written in the Arabic script that one will also find used in the Quran. indeed I would say as for the Arabic Bible the only ones amongst Malaysians who can read them would be all those Muslims who read the Quran in Arabic as well. I guess that would even more dangerous to be allowed into the country, don't you think?
If this ban is permitted, how long before would we see a ban on Malay Bibles imported from Indonesia? I don't think we print Malay Bibles here in Malaysia.
So, Nuraina, what do you think? Should they also ban all Malay Bibles from Indonesia considering they too carry Allah in them?
Leave Allah alone for Christ's sake, appeals Dompok
Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Bernard Dompok, who isn’t known for mincing his words, opines that the Herald has the right to use the word Allah in its Malay pages until the court rules otherwise.
Malaysiakini.com
They have been using it for decades and decades, why must we suddenly stop them?
Who is wanting to stop them?
The increasingly vehement religious bigots, who have become very dominant these days?
One other thing.
It never occured to me that using Allah was anything to be concerned with. Not until this was raised first some years back when some Malay Muslims found offensive.
What about Indonesians? That is where the use of Allah in the Indonesian/Malay lexicon originates. They seem to see it as a non-issue. Why here?
As for Rocky's argument. Lame la mate. We got an English word. And that has been "God" for a long time. I don't see me changing that to Allah or Tuhan anytime soon. And when I pray in Tamil I use 'Andavar', or 'Kadaval'. And mind you these same words have been used to refer to the Hindu Gods even before Christianity. I don't see the Hindus complaining. They seem to be quite sure about their own faith.
Something wrong with your faiths here in Malaysia?
Wak Segen above said: Muslim 'dakwah' movements in Malaysia had never included non-Muslims in their progrmammes.
But how come non-Muslims had to do several subjects on Islam during their undergraduate studies in universities like UTM? And it was compulsory!
So what is the hogwash about Muslimsn to imposing their faith unto others?
If you wanna teach non-Muslims about Islam, compulsorily, then it should be made compulsory for Muslims to be taught about other religions with the same level of detail -- and compulsorily too.
So in response to Wak Segen, there is discriminatory actions going on which may have dakwah as its subtle basis.
I hope all Malaysian Muslims recognise this before getting overly defensive.
Nuraina,
Eat this.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/1/24/nation/3106020&sec=nation
KOTA KINABALU: Minister in Prime Minister’s Department Tan Sri Bernard Dompok is appealing to the Home Ministry to allow the Catholic newsletter Herald to continue using the word “Allah” in its Bahasa Malaysia edition until the courts decide.
He said the matter was now in court and the Home Ministry should allow the due process of the justice system instead of insisting the Herald stop using the word.
“I hope the Home Affairs Ministry will let it rest and let the courts decide. I feel everyone should be open minded when it comes to worship,” he said, adding that Bahasa Malaysia was a language of all Malaysians.
Dompok said the Herald was a small organisation with about 14,000 readers among the Catholics in a country with about two million Christians.
He added there was no need for the Home Ministry to rush into stopping the use of the word.
“The ministry is acting in a hurry, I think they are using a strong language,” Dompok told reporters after giving cash gifts to top performing students at SK St Theresa in Penampang here.
He said the Herald Bahasa Malaysia publication licence was only approved after he brought it up at a Cabinet meeting recently — but on condition that they should not use the word Allah in reference to God.
Dompok said the word Allah to refer to God among Christians in the Arab world and even in Indonesia was accepted as a universal term.
"Dompok: Let Herald use ‘Allah’ until courts decide"
freddy malaysia.
for the record. i have always thought it odd that the history of Islam is part of the Sejarah syllabus for secondary schools. I know non-Muslims have been unhappy about that.
but then, knowledge is invaluable. There are also many non-Muslims who found it to their advantage to have learnt about Islamic history, just as I have found theology a useful subject in university. whether it was learnt by compulsion or voluntarily.
anyhow. about the compulsory Islamic studies in UTM. I'm sorry, I don't know about that. i don't agree that it should be compulsory.
and please don't generalize Malay Muslims. And in that tone.
Mr Old Fart,
Indonesians speak Bahasa Indonesia. It is their language.
Of course, I know their bibles are in Bahasa Indonesia. It is in a language they understand.
And no. The use of Allah in Bahasa Indonesia bibles is a non-issue.
You would want my view, wouldn't you, on whether Malaysia should ban these bibles.
Really, it does not matter (to me) whether or not they ban these bibles.
Old Fart,
I find your attempt to compare our faith with the faiths of the Hindus as obnoxious as your love and support for the Israelis in their so-called conflict with the Gazans. However, I'll still respond to you (since you are not really an "anonymous" to me).
There is nothing wrong with our faith. In fact, we are very clear about it. In the Muslims' basic declaration of faith, one declares that "there is NO GOD except Allah". So it's not interchangeable, you see?
And in the same line of the "kalimah", we declare "Muhammadarasullullah". Which means Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah.
Oh, there is nothing wrong with our faiths (as you were trying to suggest). Your problem is that we are steadfast in our belief. You want us to be like the Indonesians on this one because it is so important. It's not Syed Hamid's one-upmanship that's in play, it is your one-upmanship.
Now go and throw your support for them Israelis, Mr Old Fart. But remember, this is Malaysia so don't do it openly. I suggest Indonesia would be more tolerant of Tel Aviv pom-pom boys..
"ALLAH" - means GOD ... period!
Even when YOU ALL MALAYSIAN! have the Petronas twin towers, you Malaysian act as though, you people living on top of a coconut tree!
Try to get down from the coconut tree and start saving money. Step out of the NUT shell Malaysia and see the WORLD!
~ Turkish Delight
Rocky's Bru:
You comment betrays a certain childishness. Which isn't too good for your reputation given that you are a largely-followed blogger.
I raise three points with regard to your dialogue with the reader called Old Fart.
First, going by what is contained here in this comments section, the reader Old Fart addresses an issue that has nothing to do with Israelis or Tel Aviv or the like. Neither is he disrespectful in any way to Islam itself. Yet, your response to Old Fart's comments is peppered with kiddish name-calling (e.g., "Now go and throw your support for them Israelis, Mr Old Fart", or "I suggest Indonesia would be more tolerant of Tel Aviv pom-pom boys [i.e., like Old Fart]"); all unrelated to the argument at hand.
For a meaningful exchange, my advice to you here would be as follows: stick to the specific issues raised, be civil and shutter out insults, and engage by persevering to clearly and truly understand the other person's argument or where he/she is coming from. This requires you to temper your very own zeal for your position.
Second, Old Fart is nowhere attempting to compare the worth of your faith with his, as you imply. What he was pointing out, by using another religion as an example, is that the usage of different terms by different people to refer to the self-same Creator (if you believe in a single Creator, or "tawhid", that is) should never be an issue. Who the subject is is clear and unambiguous, whatever the name one uses to refer to that subject. In making this point, Old Fart alludes to the curious insecurity he observed amongst certain groups in Malaysia when people of differing faiths use the name "Allah" to refer to the same Creator we all believe in. A corresponding question is: does any group has the right to the use a certain word or meaning to the exclusion of others?
The way or name with which others pray to the Creator may vary, sometimes very greatly, but it is certain that it is the same Creator each and everyone is calling. If one denies this, then one implies the existence of more than one Creator (which, of course, goes against the doctrine of "tawhid").
Third, you speak of being "steadfast" in belief. It's is praiseworthy to be steadfast (as in being firm in purpose and direction) with one's belief, but your sort of "steadfastness" appears to be marked by a stubborn conviction to exclude the universal value shared by and commonality of all faiths (including yours). This is hinted by a disparaging attitude towards other religions, especially if it is considered side by side with yours, indicated by your use of the word "obnoxious".
Many Malaysians lack the ability (or courage) to assume a tolerant, respectful (but brave) and open-minded attitude when discussing issues that are close to their hearts. This is indeed unfortunate. But more unfortunate, and possibly dangerous, is the fact that popular bloggers with large followings tend to lack this broad and important quality, given their wide influence.
I think the Church evangelizing on its religion is expected but why argue over the word Allah if it knows it offends Muslims. What are its motives?
Would not using the word change the meaning of the passage or the sermon or whatever the fuck…..sorry I don’t necessarily believe in man made religion and its so called holy books. I rather believe in man’s action here and now.
Indonesian christians used the word Allah?. I used to watch the Indonesian christian tv programs some years ago. I never heard the preachers used the word "Allah". Instead, they used the word "Tuhan Yang Maha Esa" or "Tuhan Yesus".
Remember Broary Marantika's song "Tuhan". Actually it was a gospel song. But Malaysian Malays love the song so much not knowing that it was a christian gospel song. Wondering why he chose the word Tuhan instead of "Allah".
Perhaps some of you should go to the music shop and try to find the Indonesian records/CDs. There are a lot of songs seemed to me are gospel songs. But Malays/muslims don't rally realize this.
As far as I know "Allah" is not a Malay word. The correct Malay translation should be "Tuhan". So what's the fuss unless the church has ulterior motives.
Some claimed that Christians in Malaysia used the word "Allah" years ago. So prove it.
Indonesians bible in Malaysia used the word "Allah"?. I am not at all surprise.
I have also been watching Christian Evangelical TV Programs like 700 Club. But not once I heard they used the word "Allah". To them "Allah" is connected to Islam.
The Muslims in Malaysia is not confused or scared. Instead, we should be worried that there are extremists who are willing to exploit this issue. The last thing we need is a religious conflict like those in Indonesia, India etc.
Sharifuddin Duta,
I hope you don't mind if I drop the "Dato'" title. (I suggest you do that in your next comment to my blog, too, because really, mate, it doesn't add anything to your cyber persona).
Old Fart was clearly questioning the the Muslims' confidence in their faith and he did that by comparing to the confidence of the Hindus in their faith vis-a-vis Christianity and other religions.
Read the context:
"As for Rocky's argument. Lame la mate. We got an English word. And that has been "God" for a long time. I don't see me changing that to Allah or Tuhan anytime soon. And when I pray in Tamil I use 'Andavar', or 'Kadaval'. And mind you these same words have been used to refer to the Hindu Gods even before Christianity. I don't see the Hindus complaining. They seem to be quite sure about their own faith.
"Something wrong with your faiths here in Malaysia?"
Now, Sharifuddin Duta, that's English. It's not good English but it's English.
And, Sharifuddin, it's important that I draw attention to Old Fart's obnoxious stand against the Palestinians because it is relevant in the context of our little debate on religion here. (By the way, I didn't bring in Hinduism into this, he did!).
p.s. And pls, mate, drop that Dato' title. It's really not cool. :-)
Old Fart and Sharifuddin,
Loken Pal-ani-Samy should have had the last word because his comment, I think, summarizes the issue well.
When you know it offends your brother Muslims, why insist?
Thank you.
rocky o rocky ! when & how many times have u attended the CHURCH services that : " i have NOT heard a sermon ( in English) where ALLAH is used in place of God in church " !?
saudara amin sarkawi (i think that's your name) and mr old fart.
my apologies...i accidentally deleted your comments.
do re-send them.
thank you...
anon 5.56 pm
Provoke?
Please don't forget that the Tribune had been using the word Allah for so many years and no body is upset - except the Home Ministry that brought up the issue.
Now, tell me who is the one who provoke?
5:56 PM
Need I say more about using the brains? Obviously you are not using yours the way it was designed. Why add fuel to a burning fire? Go figure.
A GOOD MAN DOES NOTHING.
Aiyah ! manusia2, hey, tak cukup
masalah3 kah ! SIGH ! cukup lah, anak-anak ....talk something else lah, ok !!
HAPPY chinese niu (ox) year 2009 !
(heha)
Herald editor Rev Andrew had said earlier Thursday that he would stop using the word "Allah" but changed his position after talking to his lawyer....Why is he been petty?
It is sad that that the Rev knowing the word offends our fellow Malays can’t forgive, despite having the right. If he is preaching the gospel then does calling it Tuhan or Allah make a difference?
Ok! Is your god different than mine? Born a Hindu I have many Gods; but of course the Church calls me a pagan.
Fish U!
Life is so full without being caught in the machinations of religion and god.
No one has sovereignty on expressions and free thought. How can it be offensive when believers want to relate to their god in the way they see fit?. There's more challenging issues for all of us to deal with such as poverty, justice, equity and the environment.
This issue like so many is so teruk as if we Malaysians are caught in a time warp. It is as if one god is better than the other almost like competing brands such as Nike, Reeboks, Power, Brooks etc. When religion increasingly becomes an identity rather than faith, it is has all the undertones of power and politics. We used to live in a society when everyone got on well with each other.
There's always an alternative folks. You can all be good without God or Allah or whatever( Jesus, Buddha, The Prophet Muhammad, Visnu, etc etc )
Look and read into many western/English forum and when they try to mock/insult the Muslim god these Christians use Allah because the word is associated with Muslim. They don't feel like it is an act of mocking/insulting their own god. The western/Christian world already accepted that Muslim god is referred to as Allah and suddenly some people says it's the same thing and that Herald can use it in Bible. I challenge the Pope to says it is the SAME THING. He'll be shot dead in no time.
I should clarify by shot dead, I mean by Christian themselves or maybe they throw a shoe at him. I don't know but just imagine the Pope ending his speech by saying "Let's us all pray to Allah". That would never happen. Whether he is behind bullet proof glass or not.
The Catholic Herald's choice of word to refer to God and the ensuing reaction of the authorities really boils down to the usual mistake of not seeing the wood for the trees
But first let's stop comparing the situation here with Indonesia. They plough their own furrow. For instance nobody makes much of their policy of denying the Chinese their Chinese name!
Secondly, it's not a matter of what's wrong with using the word Allah - it's the WHY? If Islam is to be 'favoured' by the Herald in this particular way, they should also include Yahweh, another Abrahamic faith, or Lord Brahma for a non-Abrahamic belief.
When Christianity was struggling for survival and dominance towards the tail end of the Roman Empire - the Founding Fathers were happy to adopt and adapt the terms and practices of the Roman gods to make Christianity palatable to the pagans. For instance, Easter is a celebration of the pagan Spring Festival, Christmas for the Winter Festival and early Christian churches like in Britain were constructed on the same site as the pagan temples. At the Council of Nicaea in AD323, Jesus became the Son of God because the Romans found it difficult to relate to a flesh-and-blood man as worthy of being worshipped.
Now that Others are more or less done with the demonisation of The Prophet in their award winning novels and cartoons and videos, they turn to another deeply felt 'symbol' of Islam, the word 'Allah'. You can quote umpteen sources about how this word has been interchangeably used in past texts but the reasons are utterly different. The word has been CO-OPTED for a devious purpose. I must say this has been done with panache - with a kind of 'butter won't melt in the mouth' kind of innocence.
It's the context, folks, - it's the history, - it's a strategy and the timing. The Muslims are now at their weakest, and not only since 9/11 - it stretches way back to the demise of the sad to say, corrupt Ottoman Empire.
As for the Muslims, they have retreated into their cosy nest of personal piety, of checking and correcting each other's Muslim-ness and indulging in a kind of 'holier than thou' escapism.
More and more edicts and laws will not ease or stop the current campaign against Islam. After all, Warren Larson, Director of Muslim Studies at Columbia International University said, "Islam is biologically taking over the world." The neo-cons, Zionists , secularists, liberals and self-loathing Malays/Muslims are also mouthing the same mantra of Muslims being the world's foremost bogeyman.
But it's all up to the Muslims - who have to arm themselves with knowledge of their 'tormentors' to study their tactics, aims and strategy. If all they can do is thrash about in anger and threats - then you have fallen into their trap.
Rocky,
Let's make it easy for you.
You say: "Old Fart was clearly questioning the the Muslims' confidence in their faith and he did that by comparing to the confidence of the Hindus in their faith vis-a-vis Christianity and other religions."
And therefore? Retaliate with Israeli jibes? Certainly not a mark of a respectable blogger (much less that of a respectable editor).
Here's how Abdul Rahman (the author of a recent letter to Malaysiakini) would have responded:
"Let the courts decide then on whether this claim is true or not as I believe that historical facts can be proven through written records.
A Muslim with a sound mind will accept facts as facts and not be threatened if history shows it to be that way.
As a Muslim, I do not think that the word ‘Allah’ whether it is allowed by the courts to be used or not by other faiths will impact my faith in my Allah."
Take note of the bolded passages. This is an example of a calm, mature, and intelligent answer that would neatly address Old Fart's query, to which Old Fart or any other reader would, hypothetically and with satisfaction and respect, say to Abdul Rahman: "thank you for your information, Sir".
Your outburst on the other hand, with its rude Israeli/Tel Aviv insinuations, may reflect for others well-shrouded intolerance and chauvinism on your part, and it serves no other purpose but to sow further seeds of distrust towards Muslims, and I, being one, am right to be concerned. Separately, the manner with which you commentate on important issues raises worrying questions about the soundness of judgment and attitude and sense of balance expected of high-quality newspaper editors -- whether erstwhile or one actively prospecting for the job.
p.s. Your comment with regards my title is noted, and duly disregarded: immature remarks unrelated to the argument at hand should be casually swept aside as such.
This issue is being made just to create chaos among the multi-religion malaysian. definitely, some one will gain something from this issue.
if any good scholars (in religion comparison field) in malaysia (not being one sided i.e. impartial) could say something on this matter.
Perkataan Allah bermaksud Tuhan yg Satu. The One and Only God. Ianya translation dari Arabic combinasi dari Al- (bererti Khusus, singular) dan -ilah (bererti Tuhan). Perkataan ini tiada plural (e.g. Allahs or Allahes). Ajaran Christian tak sesuai menggunakan translasi ini kerane mereka tidak percaya kepada concept Tuhan yg satu. Mereka percaya pada Trinity (Tuhan Bapa, Tuhan Anak, Roh kudus).
So what if the Bible from Indonesia is using Allah for God? Kalau salah pun kita nak ikut juga ke? Yg salah tetap salah tetap salah.
RunnerfromKuantan
I'm curious, for which of its Godhead
does the Herald intends to substitute the name Allah for. Is it to be Allah the Papa, Allah the Son or Allah the Ghost Holy? An idea, could it be Mary the mother of Allah?
Would appreciate if someone could enlighten.
Okay, so the word Allah does mean 'God'. So, why all the fuss concerning its use by the Christian community? Why do we Muslims protest the use of the word 'Allah' in the Malay Bible and Christian publications?
Allah is God, He is THE God, the one and only. To say otherwise would be blasphemous.
The question is, is Allah as worshiped by Muslims throughout the world is the same as the Christian 'God'?
The answer is NO. I say it again, NO!
The Christians (with very few exceptions) believe in the 'Trinity' concept, which states that God exists in three persons, but in one being. Islam on the other hand, is a strictly MONOTHEISTIC faith, meaning it leaves no room for words such as ‘one’ or ‘three’.
We Muslims believe in the God of Abraham, God of Ishmael and Jacob, God of Moses, Aaron, Elijah (Alias), Elisha (Ilyasa’), Ezekiel (zulkifli). Those prophets however, DID NOT preach the concept of ‘Trinity’, that concept was introduced by ‘Paul of Tarsus’ (St. Paul). If you don’t believe me then you may visit any Synagogue and ask a Rabbi if the Jews worship the same ‘Trinity’ God that the Christians worship. He would probably kick you out of the temple. ‘Ben Israel’, would understand this, if he really is a ‘son of Israel’ which he proclaims to be.
Even Arab Christians (Nestorians) add the word ‘Al-ab’ (meaning ‘father’), after the word ‘Allah’ to distinguish It from the Islamic God.
To all my Christian friends, Christendom is a not our nemesis, and Islam does not preach us to suppress other faiths. However, if Christians make any attempt to attribute Allah to your Trinity God, then you can expect a nationwide protest from the Muslim quarter. It is a matter of ‘Akidah’ (dogma) to us. If we wander from the true Akidah, then it will be A MORTAL SIN.
Infact, in all Abrahamic faiths, walking astray from the true Akidah would invite the Lord's wrath. You could lose eternity.
Consider the following verses from Deutronomy (6-9)
“..I am the Lord your God..
You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me..”
Deutronomy, verse 6-9.
I do not think there should be any objection for anyone to use the word Allah if, and only if, they are referring Allah to, at minimum, the following characteristics:
The one and only God,who is Eternal and Absolute.
One that begets not nor is He begotten and
One that there is none like unto Him
There are 99 attributes/characteristics of Allah so go ahead and use the word if you know what it refers to. Otherwise just use the general word - God.
Allah the Lord Almighty is laughing at you all.. sometimes, learned people say the darndest thing in the world..well, why not all of us go and meet Allah and ask Allah ourselves.. funny M'sians..
To those who say we should only refer to Allah if we mean a certain type of God (commenter Anonymous 1:55 am), or that Allah is not the same God that Christians pray to (giving the Trinity argument, as done by commenter Selampit), etc. --> you have completely missed the point.
No matter how someone prays to Allah/God, whatever the conceptual approach, the person who receives their prayer call is One --> Allah, or whichever name one may prefer to call Him.
So when we try to differentiate our Allah from their 'God', claiming that they pray to a different 'God', we break a cardinal rule that we ourselves claim to adhere to, as Datuk Sharifudin Duta said up there..... which is our belief in the oneness of our Allah/God.
So the argument that your God is different from my God, that your 'Allah' is different from my Allah is a remarkably ridiculous statement with a massive logical fault in it.
This is the kind of silly argument that religious bigots will put forth as a result of them having become blinded by their fervent belief and their very literal reading of their scriptures (for example, "there is no other God but this God [insert the name of the God]").
I think this is the crux of the religious problem in Malaysia.
If we overcome this, we are are halfway there to religious harmony in Malaysia.
puak x2 Christian nak mempermain Bahasa.this is an outrite provocation..
They say, JESUS is the begotten son of GOD.
Some say, JESUS is GOD.
but their BIBLE says, n i quote JESUS, " I am the son of Man"
translate into Bahasa Malaysia plse, replacing GOD with Allah.
Tuhan , it seems is not sufficient for them.
so plse translate n lets see what is preach makes sense or is insane.
Dat2
Dear Getaran Jiwa..
You wrote "No matter how someone prays to Allah/God, whatever the conceptual approach, the person who receives their prayer call is One --> Allah, or whichever name one may prefer to call Him."
Of course you are free worship God in whatever CONCEPT you wish, as Allah, as Adonai, YHWH, as G-d. That is THE LEAST concern of ours. Believe in whatever you want.
JUST DON'T EXPECT MUSLIMS TO EMBRACE YOUR PANTHEIST IDEOLOGY.
This 'bigot' version of Islam as you call it, has been laid down by the Prophet Muhammad and happens to be the core belief of billions of people worldwide.
You see, religion is not like a sports car that you could simply modify to suit your personal tastes. In all religions there are DOGMAS. (Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from).
Trinity is a Christian dogma, and we Muslims respect that because our faith teaches us to do so (the Quran says "unto ye thy religion, and unto me my religion). It is their exclusive right to worship "in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti". Such is the way the Christians 'perceive' God Almighty.
The 'oneness' of Allah on the other hand, is an Islamic dogma, and similarly we expect our Christian friends to respect it. Such is the way we Muslims 'perceive' God Almighty.
Bigotry is the result when this bilateral respect is breached, whether by the Muslims, or by the Christians.
And if you want to create your own 'liberal/universal' version of Islam or Christianity; then let me inform you that you're not the first to so. The Bahais had given it a shot, AND THEY FAILED MISERABLY.
This is simple solution for Sabahans and Sarawakians--> you have to merge with Indonesia and say "good by" to the "narrow-minded" malays and Malaysian govt in the peninsular.
There will be no "Malayness", "racial and ethnic discrimination" and NEP in Indonesia - your "real" mother and father.
tengku ahmad ridhaudin
the prophet muhammad once said that what ever you do must begin with intention to serve Allah. though the hadist just mentioned begin with intention without the words for Allah alone. muslim understood the meaning due to their oath everything lilla hi taala (for the sake of Allah) even the word taala was used instead of Allah. Therefore, the word Allah is more appropriated to be used by the one who solely follow Allah guidance when Allah said that the Quran is the final guidance for whole mankind which Allah makes zabur, torah, and injil obselete. But for those who ignore the command of Allah which for example only accepting what they want to believe, it is a little bit weird for them to still use the world Allah. Will anyone find this analogy similar to a curriculum used in 1950 was absolutely obselete when the same government asked them to refer to the latest one. Will the government has no power or discretion to restrict certain freedom to the one who still want to learn according to the 1950 curriculum. i.e. not to refer to the same goverment.
The use of the word “ALLAH” by the Christians is a non-issue, made into an ISSUE by some UMNO fascists in the Malaysian cabinet, who have been behaving akin to the Big schoolyard Bullies.
For the information of the uninformed, the Bahasa Malaysia Church Services (Catholics, Anglicans, Sidang Injil Borneo, Evangilical etc.) in East Malaysia, Sabah and Sarawak, have been conducting their worships using the Al Kitab ever since I can remember. The word "Allah" is part and parcel of the services, hymns and their publications. So, why the authorities want to banned it? Have they got the right to do so? Isn't this persecution of the BM speaking Christians? Nuraini, WHY is it acceptable?
Now, since the word "Allah" is used in the Al Kitab or Injil, will the Malay bible be banned after this too? How about church services in Bahasa Malaysia? The use of the BM word "kitab", "Injil", "Amin", "Malaikat", "Nabi", names of the nabi-nabi - Isa, Yusuf, Musa, Ibrahim etc.? Will the Iban bible, which uses the word Tuhan Allah be banned too? Where will this stop?
Why do you want to interfere in our religion? Why are you persecuting us? Is it okay if we interfere with yours?
We are not questioning the position of Islam as the official religion under the Federal Constitution (please don't twist the issue at hand). We just want to be left alone and to continue to have the right right to call our God in Bahasa Malaysia os Arabic by any name we wish to call HIM. Is this too much to ask for?
I wish also to remind those who are “buta sejarah” to read deeper into the real Malaysian history. No, not the UMNO version. I wish to point out to the agreement given to Sabahan (and sarawakians too), during the formation of the Federation of Malaysia called the 20 points Agreement, which is not only an agreement written on paper, but also carved on stone! Go see the "Batu Sumpah" in Keningau. This is the real Social Contract given to us Sabahan. Point 1 on Religion of the 20 Points reads: "While there was no objection to Islam being the national religion of Malaysia there should be no State religion in North Borneo, and the provisions relating to Islam in the present Constitution of Malaya should not apply to North Borneo".
Salam damai,
Dr.AT
To those who haven't heard a Christian song in BI/BM, here's a song by Robert and Lea Sutanto entitled "Kau Yang Terindah":
Kau yang terindah di dalam hidup ini
Tiada Allah Tuhan yang seperti Engkau
Besar perkasa penuh kemuliaan
Kau yang termanis di dalam hidup ini
Ku cinta Kau lebih dari segalanya
Besar kasih setiaMu kepadaku
Ku sembah Kau ya Allah ku
Ku tinggikan namaMu selalu
Tiada lutut tak bertelut
Menyembah Yesus Tuhan Rajaku
Ku sembah Kau ya Allah ku
Ku tinggikan namaMu selalu
Semua lidah kan mengaku
Engkaulah Yesus Tuhan Rajaku
Salam damai,
Dr. AT
Malaysians!
Please holf your horses!
Calm down.. PLEASE!
Dont you see whats happening here? BN is on the brink of collapse. And BN has engaged their trolls to create racial tension with hope of a race conflict so that they can declare an emergency thus reverse the 0308 effects.
Can you not see the coordinated manouvers of JMD, Demi Negara, Rocky and this nuraina thing ?
Its not only happening online. they have engaged their goons in real life too. remember kugan?
how about la bodega? how about Pewaris?
Dont get sucked in by these goons. We will be playing into their hands if we do. Let them bathe in their ill gotten richess. And may God..i mean Allah have mercy on their souls..
i don't get what the bloody fuss is...God translated into the Malay language is Tuhan. The word 'Allah' is from the arabic language, so why is there an absolute need to use it since its for a Malay publication?
As far as I'm concern everyone is being uptight here.
So nuraina .. after being the high and mighty defender of islam today, will we be seeing you sip bacardi coke at your favourite joint this weekend?
Dato' Sharifuddin Duta said..
"As a Muslim, I do not think that the word ‘Allah’ whether it is allowed by the courts to be used or not by other faiths will impact my faith in my Allah."
Very well said !! I truly respect you. One's faith should not be easily shaken just because of one word. Are we that weak ?
Mcm ni kena tukar rukun negara kepada PERCAYA KEPADA ALLAH SWT... which i think more appropriate!!
soohoon said...
"So nuraina .. after being the high and mighty defender of islam today, will we be seeing you sip bacardi coke at your favourite joint this weekend?"
Awww...soohoon. i am so not deserving of your praise. You're giving me too much credit. "Defender of Islam"?. Whoa. but thank you, anyway. altho, woww...what i've done in saying the little that i did is so so insignificant. so nothing compared to other bona fide pembela Islam. i'll do better next time, as a Muslim. I shall continue to defend Islam.
and oh...you've got my favourite drink all wrong..:-P
The argument here is nothing political. It is religious!
The government of this county is responsible to ensure the name Allah is held highly and not to be misused. This is a religious duty of the government (which is UMNO) as well as all Muslims.
From reading the many responses here, i do not think the non muslim know who Allah is-yet they want to use it.
Allah is a special name of a being that made known His attributes. Not only He made known what He is, he also made known what He is not.
Definitely Allah is not the same as the God the Christians refers to -- The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost..
Little did the Christians know that they have uttered a gross blasphemy causing the heavens to shatter, the earth about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble.
It is the duty of Muslims to wage war on those who make fun of this sacred name.
I think it is time we should just put this matter to rest and attend to the most needy topics like the economy and the thousands that is currently going through job lay-offs period now.
Below is what I think of all this, and some of my arguments/comments can be read in Demi Negara and Rocky's of the related topic.
The points are presented (cut & paste) from the comments received:
A reply to Kiawin (Rocky's blog).
You wanna reason by the way of the language. Here's what I can say from my knowledge.
Look at this: "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti." (http://www.scribd.com/doc/93058/Latin-prayer)
You see my friend, the Christians pray in so many languages. Be it Latin, English, Indonesian, Zulu, Afrikaan...so many languages, and so the bible are published in the locals language of mother tongue. That is why, you do not see the word "Allah" in the bible which is used by those Christians praying in Latin. Why? Because like the above excerpt that I had listed, it is called "Patris". Now if you were to translate that into Indonesian, it'd be "Dengan nama Bapa, dan Anak, dan Rohul Kudus". Therefore, your bible had always been published in the language of the locals. The only bible has the word Allah would only be the Arab bible, since the origin of the word Allah is also Arabic.
Now, the Muslim scriptures however were given to us by God in Arabic. And it will stay in Arabic until the judgment day comes. You will never find a Quran in Latin or English or Indonesian, you can only find the TRANSLATION in English, Latin or Indonesian or Malay. The Muslims pray in Arabic, all over the world. You will never come across a Muslim who prays in English, or Latin or Indonesian. Because it has been ordained by God so that prayers are in Arabic. That is why it may seem that as you say, we consider it as part of the Malay language, but still we are well aware that "Allah" actually originates from Arabic. We use "Allah", because our scriptures use the word Allah. It was revealed to us that way. It has been that way since then.
That was why my question, "Do you wanna publish a bible in Malay or Arabic? Please be consistent...". If you say publish in Malay, then by all means use the Malay term for God, which is "Tuhan". Be fair to the language. Why would you want to jumble up a bit of Arabic here and a bit of Malay there? That is why I ask of you, to be consistent. So please make up your mind. Be consistent.
Peace be to you brother.
Below was commented recently:
Do the Christians know the original language in which their Bible was written in? Do the Christians know the history of their Bible?
The original language from which your current Bible was taken from was originally found in Greek language manuscripts. That means it was all written in Greek. In Greek language, the term for "god" is theos, "The God" is "Hotheos". "Elohim" however is Hebrew. Why can't you just go back to what was written in your original Bible manuscripts? Use the term "Hotheos"?
The late brother Ahmed Deedat can explain to you in the following clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vMgiKPVIAI
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhMUTjRXVM8
Shall we just put this matter to rest? Did Jesus say you need to use "Allah" to worship him? And those that does not use "Allah" will be damned to hell? I think Jesus never said anything like that.
Peace be to all.
Since some people claim that this is the work of UMNO and such and such. I have this to clarify, I am not an UMNO member, nor do I belong to any political party. I am non-partisan.
I am a Muslim, I do believe in Jesus, who is a mighty prophet of Allah. Of which in the Quran is dedicated one whole surah under the name Surah Maryam (Mary), mother to Jesus.
Like I had suggested, please use the word "Hotheos", since that is the real word for God in your original manuscripts where your Bible was written in. Which is in the Greek language.
Please do not confuse yourself anymore, if you are still confused, please watch more of Ahmed Deedat's debates. It should help you reason more sensibly.
Peace be to all.
I am Pribumi Indonesian.. and I feel so WUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WUAHAHAHAHAHA... when I read about this ban.
Kasihan kamu...! pantas kamu Melayu Muslim semakin tertinggal jauh dan bodoh!
Isu ini hanya boleh di selesaikan dgn kekuatan. Mana dia pendekar2 melayu sejati? Bumi di ambil org, agama di cerca org, masih kah kita berdiam? Dayus kah kita?
Pantang maut sebelum ajal.
suratul Al-Ikhlas explains everything. do your homework before claiming anything. that particular surah explains who ALLAH really is, no doubt about it. stop barking around and try to justified whatever that you dont have faith ang believe in. and for your rusty brain information, theres no word ALLAH found in the bible, old or new testament. unfortunately it was altered to facilitate the malay speaking populations and i believe theres a hidden agenda behind it. thats what happens in indonesia. dude anything that was altered, not original. how can one alter words of father god, son god and holy spirit? if you are god and your name is jesus, would you want to be call by other name?
(1) Katakanlah (wahai Muhammad):"(Tuhanku ialah ALLAH Yang Maha Esa;
(2) "ALLAH yang menjadi tumpuan sekalian makhluk untuk memohon sebarang hajat;
(3) "Ia tidak beranak dan tidak diperanakkan;
(4) "Dan tidak ada sesiapapun yang setara denganNya"
Al-Ikhlas 1-4 Makkah
(1) Katakanlah (wahai Muhammad): "Hai orang-orang yang kafir!
(2) "Aku tidak akan menyembah apa yang kamu sembah.
(3) "Dan kamu tidak mahu menyembah (ALLAH) yang aku sembah.
(4) "Dan aku tidak akan beribadat secara kamu beribadat.
(5) "Dan kamu pula tidak mahu beribadat secara aku beribadat.
(6) "Bagi kamu ugama kamu, bagiku ugamaku.
Al-Kafirun 1-6 Makkah
Definitely ALLAH is exclusively for muslim who put their faith and beleive in ALLAH by amal makruf nahi munkar.
come out of the box...80% of sabah and sarawak are christians. international bible is used so ALLAH existed many centuries ago..
in my opinion , if malaysian muslims are worried that misuse of allah can effect and mislead the younger generation...than BEEF UP and teach well...please look around.THE END IS NEAR AND PLEASE DO NOT BE TOO CONTRAVERSE..STUDY BACK THE MALAYSIAN HISTORY..It takes 50 years to realize Hang Tuan is not a great warrior just because he is Chinese...LEARN
Post a Comment