Friday, August 05, 2011

JAIS Raid on Church: Evidence of Proselytizing

"There is evidence of proselytizing of Muslims by non-Muslims" : Selangor state Muslim Affairs, Malay Customs, Infrastructure and Public Amenities Committee chairman Dr Hasan Mohamed Ali.

Hasan said this when explaining why JAIS (Selangor Islamic Religious Department) carried out Wednesday night"s raid on Damansara Utama Methodist Church (DUMC).

Read the NST report HERE.

I'd like to know what the evidence is? This is a serious allegation because we all know that it is unlawful for non-Muslims to try and convert Muslims.

Meanwhile, DAP's Lim Kit Siang has accused Hasan of "breaking ranks" with the Selangor government on this, given that Selangor Menteri Besar Khalid Ibrahim had expressed regret over the incident.

"What is a matter of concern and must be viewed seriously is the public defence of the JAIS action by the state executive councillor Hassan Ali issued shortly after Khalid's statement expressing regret for the raid and asking JAIS to submit a full report on the incident – as it is an act of breaking ranks in the Selangor state government," he said Lim in a statement.

Berita Harian (today's, page 10) spoke to a single mother who has been actively participating in the church activities after going through serious financial trouble.
The woman, a Muslim, said the church offered financial assistance on condition that she joined all its activities.
She is now financially okay.

"In all honesty, the church had been a great help to me and my three children. To date, I have received RM20,000 from the church", she was quoted to say.

The single mother also said that there are about 100 Muslim single mothers in a similar situation.

My earlier posting
:

JAIS Raids Unity Dinner At Church

In the first place, there is no law - Syariah or secular -forbidding Muslims from attending events, including dinners, in churches.

So why did JAIS -- Jabatan Agama Islam Selangor -- unleash its officers (accompanied by the police) to this gracious event?

Did JAIS go too far when its officers interrupted this event (a muhibbah dinner) at the Damansara Utama Methodist centre?

Big mistake...

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Get real. What were they doing at the church? Breaking fast? Tarawih prayers? Commonlah Datuk.

Anonymous said...

Did Berita Harian name the church or the lady? Or the activities mentioned? Any proof provided? If there's proof it should be there on the front page. So likely there's none. After all, Berita Harian is not exactly a pillar of honest journalism or noble character. It might once have been. Nor reading it occasionally, is it beyond creating faction ie a mix of fact and fiction. More likely the church has been helping her out through subsistence assistance when no one else did. This is what churches do. It is in the Christian tenet, to help the needy. Thanks for your earlier posting.

Anonymous said...

Adakah anda akan berdiam diri jika mengetahui ada majlis untuk mengkafirkan umat islam?

Mengapa melihat raid itu sebagai big mistake? Kenapa tidak melihat apa yang orang-orang islam buat di gereja di waktu bulan ramadan yang mulia ini. Adakah lebih baik bertawarih di masjid?

Anda fikirlah sendiri.

mae1000 said...

"Saya muslim tapi saya tak kiaah kalau orang Islam masuk kristian".

Ini bukan pegangan penganut Islam.

NURAINA A SAMAD said...

anon@2:22pm: who was doing what in the church?
actually, i have no idea what they were doing, but according to the pastor, they were having dinner.

anon@2:29PM: It should be on the front page? really?
the BH has all the details. her name etc. and yes, the church has been helping her financially.
i believe she did not want to be named.

anon@3:26PM: dalam laporan awal, tiada butir2 mengenai kehadhiran umat islam di dinner itu. walaupun ada orang islam, apakah JAIS berhak buat raid?
memang lah lebik baik berterawih di masjid. Tapi bukan kah itu hak mereka kalau mereka berpilih untuk hadhir di dinner tersebut?

adakah saya akan berdiam diri kalau .... ??
kalau betul ada, memang-lah salah..

NURAINA A SAMAD said...
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NURAINA A SAMAD said...
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q0l0p said...

Ladies and gentelman.., Brace our self...

“Orang-orang Yahudi dan Nasrani tidak akan senang kepada kamu hingga kamu mengikuti agama mereka. Katakanlah: "Sesungguhnya petunjuk Allah itulah petunjuk (yang benar)". QS. Al-Baqarah; 120)

Lee said...

Its going to be tough for the controversial Hassan chap to conjure up evidence of proletyzing!If he can't then its good riddance of bad rubbish!

Anonymous said...

Salam,

Jika benarlah perkara ini berlaku (subject to if the so said incident took place).

Sempena bulan Ramadhan, secara lojiknya mengapa umat Islam perlu berada di gereja? Bukankah bulan Ramadhan bulan ibadah yang paling agung tiba setahun hanya sekali, mengapa memilih untuk berada di gereja? Justeru, jika ia benar-benar berlaku, wajarlah serbuan itu dilakukan kerana pihak gereja sendiri tiada akal kerana menjemput orang Islam di hari ibadah orang Islam. Bayangkan misalnya seorang Hindu meraikan hari Thaipusam dijemput oleh seorang Islam ke rumahnya untuk meraikan sahabat Hindunya yang merayakan hari suci Hindu tersebut... lojik atau tidak? There's sure element of Christianity teachings preached during the gathering - if for goodwill sake, why not in other months? Our constitution prohibits the spread of other religions amongst Muslims - its blatantly biadab!

Zaib

Firdaus Shahnaz said...

They tried to run away. Wonder why :)

Anonymous said...

Tawarih prayers are not mandatory and so let's not make it like you are not a good muslim if you don't perform the prayers.

It's entirely up to the individual and the level of his spiritual development.

To some of the commentors, let's not try to be sanctimonious here, let's not try to judge people we do not know, and worse, based on press reports at that.

These muslims could very well perform the tawarih prayers at home after dinner.

On a personal basis, I prefer to break my fast with a date and a small drink of water, do my isyak solat, then have my meal.

But if I have a company function, what's wrong with my breaking fast in the company of non-muslims , say a short prayer, then resume my dinner and do my prayers at home.

I have done that many times, and neither have I nor my non Muslim dinner companions felt embarrassed for my seemingly outward show of piety.

Certainly, I see no difference with those who break fast in a hotel buffet line, and these muslims who broke fast at a dinner function organized by an NGO and held in a church.

In fact, breaking of fast in a church (a house of god) during a dinner held for charitable activities is certainly more 'islamic' then breaking of fast in a hotel (a house of all types of earthly, non-godly activities).

As for the single lady was she quoted as being required to participate in religious activities, or is it just those activities related to self-help, etc.

Was BH specific on the details, if not, they may rightly be accused of fanning the fire.

Certainly I find it odd for Malaysian Methodists to be accused of proselytizing. That's not something they are known to do in Malaysia, or as far as I know, is it in their religious agenda.

Certainly JAKIM can be accused of being lacking if it is true that a 100 muslim single mothers have to seek financial help elsewhere. If true, this is shameful. What is happening to all our zakat?

Anonymous said...

BERITA HARIAN news that revealed several things:
1. why does the church insist on conditional help to the lady? Is it a loan? or payment for her to sell her soul? is she an agent to recruit more muslim girls?

2. weakneses in our zakat distribution and people in the jabatan agama negeri/daerah

3. failure of the muslim society to identify who needs help and how to distribute help without so much red tape.

Anonymous said...

Dear nuraina,
A couple of months ago a senior church member tried to.propagate chriastianity to me just because I was asking her about her church even tho she knew I m a Muslim.Initially she told me there was quite a number of malayscoming to her church and I commented by saying that Muslims are not allowed to church and she said she cannot turn them down. later when she guessed that I was annoyed with her she twisted the story by saying something else.Them going to the poor Muslims propagating Christianity is very common .
I m from Penang and these people' memang sedang bermaharajalela ' doing this work without any respect for us Muslims.I plead with all my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters,in whatever way we can let us all do something about the situation before our 'anak cucu' fell into this trap.As we all know as Muslims it is compulsory for us to stop this.

Anonymous said...

The part on Jais raid i shall not comment cos kita semua tak tahu apa cerita sebenarnya dan apa bukti yg ada.

Tapi tentang single mother yg mengatakan dia dapat financial assistance hingga $20,000 (ooi bnyak tu, beb) pada hemat saya mungkin kelemahan nya ada pihak kita yg beragama islam.

We need to ask why these single mothers are turning to the churches for help? Malu kita beb. Kenapa depa tak minta tolong pada kita yg sebangsa(?) dan seagama?

Saya ada sekali hadiri majlis ngo. Unwed mothers, divorcees, hiv-positive former addicts, ada meluahkan perasaan. Mereka kata kita judgmental. Itu sebab mereka sukar nak minta tolong kot?

If indeed the authorities are judgemental and ask too many questions, where are these troubled people to go.
Kita kena perihatin, kita patut nampak kelemahan kita sendiri.
If you make it so tough, ask too many difficult questions, do you wonder that those in trouble will turn away and be led astray?

Saya baca berita pasal orang muslim minta bantu pd church, saya rasa malu. Anda bagaimana?

Anonymous said...

Dahlah makcik, pemikiran makcik sama ngan pemikiran mereka, tak yah nak minta pendapatlah... memang minda makcik dah stick ngan hujah tu... u also...big mistake....saudara semuslim sendiri yang tak nak pertahankan... so apa lagi yang ada?

Anonymous said...

Salam Dato',

Lets get real lah kan... those Muslim singe mothers NEED help, and what has JAIS/JAKIM or Pusat Zakat Selangor which has RM millions in their zakat collection done to help them? These so-called Islamic agencies feel proud in having RM millions of surplus fund every year! Its just sickening and they blame the church for trying to convert Muslims? In the first place WHAT have they done to help needy Muslims?

Dhahran Sea

Anonymous said...

Kita Muslim senang sangat buruk sangka dengan orang lain,kita selalu kata "ada musuh musuh Islam bla bla bla ..." kita nak semua orang Muslim fikir satu tract saja, kita nak semua orang serupa kita pakai sama cakap sama.Kekadang kita nak orang kita go against nature dia suka merah kita nak dia suka hijau mana boleh...Wahai semua! Allah jadikan
kita berbeza beza....ada suka keju dan mentega ada suka belacan dan budu.

Anonymous said...

Dear nuraina,
A couple of months ago a senior church member tried to.propagate chriastianity to me just because I was asking her about her church even tho she knew I m a Muslim.Initially she told me there was quite a number of malayscoming to her church and I commented by saying that Muslims are not allowed to church and she said she cannot turn them down. later when she guessed that I was annoyed with her she twisted the story by saying something else.Them going to the poor Muslims propagating Christianity is very common .
I m from Penang and these people' memang sedang bermaharajalela ' doing this work without any respect for us Muslims.I plead with all my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters,in whatever way we can let us all do something about the situation before our 'anak cucu' fell into this trap.As we all know as Muslims it is compulsory for us to stop this.

Anonymous said...

susah sbb yg beri komen mostly tak faham ttg Islam.Mana boleh tengok saja dan tak kisah orang islam tukar agama.kena tanya, kaji selidik dan soal siasat.mcm juge kalau anak kita nak berhenti sekolah atau tukar sekolah atau gagal exam.kena tanya.
org2 kristian dinegara 2 mereka berusaha bersungguh utk mengekalkan agama mereka di negara mereka terutamanya sebagai pemerintah.jika ada orang islam yg menang bertanding pastinya akan dikutuk habis2an sampai mereka berundur. jangan jadi terlalu liberal.tak ada dlm kamus islam.islam kena ada ilmu dan amal baru sempurna.

Anonymous said...

senang2 masuk je agama bahai.pemikiran orang islam kat malaysia skrg terlalu liberal.semua boleh.yang haram tetap haram, yang halal tetap halal.jgn disalah tafsir.jika betul, tindakan hassan ali perlu disokong oleh semua penganut islam.

Anonymous said...

Why did the lady need to be helped by a church? I suppose the answer would be that the government agencies and her own religious organisations are not doing enough to help people in such circumstances. As ststed by Anon 2:29 PM it is one of the Christian tenets to help the needy. Is Berita Harian implying that moving forward Christians and all non-Muslims should just ignore any Muslim in need?

Anonymous said...

These single muslim mothers are a rare breed. They will do anything to get money. They use everyone. They will go to bed with the devil for money. They cry in front of everyone. But just go to their houses. They have plasma tv's, handphones, big refrigerators, carpets, built in cabinets and new cars. And the religious authorities, muslim and non muslim, listening to their sob stories. They take all of us for a ride.

JARIULLAH said...

Check out this clip at Youtube-Jais Raids Church

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uzEORnEf