The Yang di Pertuan Agong Tuanku Mizan Zainal Abidin said that neither he nor Istana Negara had at anytime approved or given support, directly or indirectly, to any quarters that organised or was involved in the 10-Eleven march to the palace or any other activities that contravened the law.
The march, in which "berpuluh-ribu" people took part, was organised by the Coalition for Clean and Fair Elections (Bersih).
The statement issued six days after Saturday's march, was at a media conference in Kuala Lumpur, and by the Datuk Pengelola Bijaya Diraja of Istana Negara, Datuk Wan Mohd Safiain Wan Hasan.
Read the Bernama story here.
Wan Mohd Safiain said that it was the first time that Istana Negara was summoning the media to publicise the content of the statement as the Yang di-Pertuan Agong viewed the matter seriously.
I've always believed in the neutrality of the Yang diPertuan Agong.
In fact, I agree that His Majesty should not be dragged into politics.
The march/rally was organised some two months ago but I don't think the organisers were warned by anyone or any representative of the palace to "forget about the whole thing".
And it was really nice of the palace to send a representative to accept the petition from Bersih.
Indeed, I don't see our Yang di-Pertuan Agong getting involved at all, or expressing support for the rally.
To me, the march/rally and presentation of the memorandum to the palace was purely symbolic.
(Note: Just to remind readers/commentors to not post remarks that insult the Yang di Pertuan Agong. I will have to reject such offensive comments.)
The law is man-made and subject to change. Whoever is more powerful dictates the law.
ReplyDeleteWhat is moral can be illegal depending on the collective social values of the majority.
But morality is self-evident and not swayed by the direction of the wind.
Ena,
ReplyDeleteThe claim that the Agong had given "tacit approval" was made by the Pas sec-gen, who is an ex-Umno guy.
Like I said in Tok Mummy's, these ex-Umno politicians sometimes don't know what they say. Anwar, also ex-Umno, tried to hijack the Bersih rally and now Pas has to go 1 up.
The Tuanku has not spoken of the 4-point memo on electoral reforms. I believe he would be consulting the other Raja-Raja on this.
Thank you.
Daulat Tuanku! Daulat Tuanku! Daulat Tuanku!
ReplyDeletei watched 101 last night and went to sleep feeling so disheartened when i heard MIS said about how misinformed/ ill-informed of our people in this beloved country of Malaysia...
ReplyDeletezaitgha
I agree. What the King said was smart and safe.
ReplyDeleteWe shouldn't expect the King to be that foolhardy by being seen to interfere with the Government. Judging by the circumstances, I agreed that what he did was strategic.
I would think that the King, when making such an open media statement, intended to reiterate his neutrality. Bear in mind, that the story we have now, comes from Bernama, and that casts doubt as to its accuracy and whether it had been cleverly spinned out of context.
Look at the Bernama release of the Al-Jazeera's 101 East interview, I'm sure that wouldn't be its last time.
so, sekarang siapa yang drag Agong into politik??? Rasanyer tak pernah Agong kluarkan statement sampai camnih sekali............and then they also drag Persatuan Peniaga Bukit Bintang..........walaweh, after so many demo, big gathering held in KL.......baru kali nih depa nak drag.....a big joke
ReplyDeleteNuraina,
ReplyDeleteWhatever it is the people have spoken. 40,000 represented a big section of the Malaysian people in general want reforms. If there was not blockade of people 100,000 people would be there. Ain't that a big enough show of unhapiness over how the nation is managed? Remember they came on their own. Use own vehicles and own money to get there.
I would like to comment on Rocky's Bru statement that the PAS Sec-Gen had obtaied tacit approval from Agong on the rally. This quote is totally out of context. I was with BERSIH from the very outset of this rally and no such words were ever uttered. What was said is that Agong agreed to receive the memo from BERSIH on the day. In fact, the palace has asked for names of those who will be delivering the memo. Pls refer to the press statement isuued today by PAS. I hope everybody be very careful not to fall into UMNO's trap. They are really desperate to counter the poor public perception on UMNO at the moment......
ReplyDeleteSo what happens now?
ReplyDelete[not rhetorical. i really want to know your take on this :)]
Nuraina,
ReplyDeleteI said this in Rocky's Bru, now I am saying it here.
So many upset and disappointed people with so much 'hopes' in here. Maybe their understanding of the system was not good enough, so they dared to hope the 'impossible'.
The participants and supporters of the Nov 10 march hoped that their memorandum will be 'listened' to by HM SPB YDP Agong. Some of them hoped that HM will throw 'support' to their cause.
The truth is, in our Westminster style Constitutional Monarchy, HM SPB YDP Agong listens to the advice of the Executive, who gets endorsement from the Parliament, a lawful and formally recognised body of the people's representation, democratically elected through General Elections by the rakyat.
With the exception of matters pertaining to the Malay culture and heritage and Islam ONLY, EVERYTHING ELSE HM SPB YDP Agong is compelled to 'listen' to the 'advice' of the Prime Minister.
Nothing else matters and the Nov 10 march is technically futile if and when the Prime Minister report back to HM SPB YDP Agong that all the 4 demands in the memorandum has already been announced by SPR to be implemented.
Not all Raja Raja is together and united, when it comes to politics. Some of the Raja Raja are very pro mainstream politics and pro UMNO.
There will not be a consensus on this. And things will eventually be, 'ceteris paribus'.
All these mere mortals whose minimal and lack understanding of the system and how things are done, officially, will be dissappointed again and again and bicker more, till the cows come home or "kucing bertanduk". No amount of Al Jazeera, CNN, BBC or what ever international agency reporting can undermine the official statement produced by the Istana Negara Grand Chamberlain.
Well, its all about 'saving-face'.
ReplyDeleteDon't you all see the coincidence?
A Royal Commission is established - giving in to the demands of the rakyat for a probe into the Lingam Tape affair (brought up by Anwar Ibrahim).
It is off-set by a statement from the Palace (and who does such statements - if not the government of the day?) that 'illegal' assemblies are not condoned.
In the first place - why was it illegal? Because the government of the day did not allow it. Period.
Come on folks - always look for these kind of off-setting effects which are 'face-saving' tactics of those in power.
And there is another interesting development - to the detriment of society that is taking place....at least affecting one segment of the Malaysian population.
The destruction of places of worship. Konon-nya because the 'new' landowners want such structures cleared so that they can profit by building their own permanent structures and selling it to the rakyat at high costs.
Usually, its the enforcement authorities (who break down such strutures) who are featured as the 'bad guys'. But they only ikut perintah.
Trace backwards and find out who these ruthless landowners are and you will see a better picture. These guys, practically 'buy' (or 'bribe') the authorities for smooth transfer of valuable land in their companies' names and then start evicting measures for those who have raised at least two generations on such land. In the process - places of worship also have to make way - be it temples or suraus.
But I do not see these political parties coming out to condemn such landowners who instigate the enforcement authorities to do such 'demolition' jobs.
They only 'prey' the enforcement authorities!
Guys - do come out in the open and go after the folks who damage the delicate fabrics of a 'peace-loving' segment of the Malaysians who are from the poorer strata of society.
Fair elections and Royal commissions will interest the middle class and those above.
Championing for proper treatment of the poorer society will go far also, as otherwise, all it takes is for thugs, enforcement authorities, bullies to continue to threaten such folks to always vote for the establishment.
These are the real majority who are actually 'suppressed' by the bullying tactics of the thugs, gangsters, robotic enforcement authorities (I dont blame them), keris-weilding peace lovers, idiots who actually see tunnels in skirts of others (except their wives, mothers, daughters, grandmothers and their illegal side-kicks), fools who do not know how to address and reprimand those morally responsible for genuine leaks in august policy making buildings but can 'sniff' other bilogical leaks, 'simple' folks who can build castles amidst land for the poor and yet do not pay proper assessments (which the menteri besar does not care, but can give out brooms).
The only constant is change. Failing to change with the times will only make ourselves irrevelant.
ReplyDeleteNuraina,
ReplyDeleteI think memo to the king is just a symbolic gesture. Why is KJ, Pak Lah etc making such a big fuss out of it? By the way l did u catch Zam on Al Jeezera...l could not believe my ears! ..aiyah what kind of English is he using!?
After reading Raja Petra on the Palace protocols and his release of someone high up in the palace purportedly with the capacity to even speak on behalf of the Agong, as a card carrying UMNO member, suddenly it rubishes all of today's headlines in all the papers about the Agong not having consented the rally.
ReplyDeleteThe YDPA expressed his stand as it is. Its true he never endorsed or approved the Bersih rally. Its right for him too to stressed the importance of every Malaysians to abide by the law that govern this nation.
ReplyDeleteReading this statement and reading it purely in its own form, the message is obvious. The YDPA do not takes side in this issue. His intention is to see Malaysians as law abiding citizens, whether it is on illegal gathering or rigged election.
But reading the whole content of the statement as interpreted by the mainstream media, the twisted message is obvious. The YDPA do not approved the gathering and wishes only for the NGOs and oppositions to be law abiding citizens.
Funny how you can take one message in its pure form and twisted it by your own interpretation.
i agree with zawi,the objective of 10eleven is expressing our view and participate in decision making process...democracy.
ReplyDeleteas zam said,people can protest,but its illegal.lol.
Have we forgotten the constitutional crisis in the 90s.UMNO held rallies which were reported to draw 100,000 people.
ReplyDeleteWere those rallies legal? Or did they obtain Royal consent?
Yes, the man behind those rallies was non other than DSAI.And the rest is history.
Daulat Tuanku!!
To add to "Have we forgotten the constitutional crisis in the 90s.UMNO held rallies which were reported to draw 100,000 people.
ReplyDeleteWere those rallies legal? Or did they obtain Royal consent?
Yes, the man behind those rallies was non other than DSAI.And the rest is history."
Was this not the same one who, together with his 'boss' bullied the actual Sabahans by getting the Elections Commission to re-draw the state seat boundaries to ensure Kadazans and other actual bumiputras of the state become a minority before the 1994 elections?
Was he not the one who also closed one-eye when Malaysian ICs were 'given away' to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who were wooed into that state (konon-nya giving them protection against a Christian majority neighbouring government) ?
Was he not the one who changed the academic year by having it start in one year and then end in another year?
Was he the one who did not say anything about the Guthries, the Bousteads and the Sime Darbys who bullied and literally 'threw away' all the estate workers from the land they toiled for many generations - without even giving them a proper alternative place to stay, without giving them a proper alternative for them to practise their faith, without even building proper alternative schools when the old buildings were demolished?
He cares for Malaysians of all races?
Has he ever shown any such example of such 'caring attitude' when in power? If ever it was, it must have been at the expense of bargaining for his own benefit, which the others had to compromise and diminish their significance slowly in this country!
Consistency...consistency....this is SORELY lacking in such 'leaders'. Always competing with the 'chameleon', changing colours, neglecting the needs of masses - just for personal gains...
Malaysia can always do without such 'pests'.!!!!!
you know...
ReplyDeleteyou may think that most of the people who walked, marched ..whatever...that Saturday 10-Eleven were ignorant of the constitution or the system of government in the country.
you may even believe that you know a lot more than those who walked...
it does not matter. but the truth is...most of them know more and know better than you an are probabluy cleverer than you.
whatever and whatever. whether they do (know) or are (cleverer than you)...
now what is wrong if the rakyat want to hand to their Yang diPertuan Agong (His Majesty), their petition, to let him know what they feel.
Now what is wrong with that? Regardless of whether he was on their side or whether he could do something.
the fact that he did not stop them from coming shows that, yes, he is above politics. He will receive whatever from whomever (of the rakyat)...
no..I wouldn't pooh-pooh the peaceful rally/march.
it may mean nothing to you...BUT..
no matter what, i think the king should do something about this. cos making a statement in the king's name without his consent is a serious matter.
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing how there can be many interpretations of or perspectives on a matter, especially one so important as this mass demonstration supposedly to protest unfair/unethical election and to seek the establishment of full-proof procedures. This was the stated cause remember!
ReplyDeleteI was taken up by what someone said at an open house - viz out of the 4-5 thousand (10 thousand if you insist) who took part, how many really and truly believed in the cause? His perspective was that in Malaysia there are usually 4-5 bystanders or hangers-on or penyibuk for each occasion/event. Bringing children to such events is one case in point!
Which brings me to anonymous 2.01pm's take on the matter. What he/she sees as a face-saving gesture may be interpreted as a genuine desire on the part of the establishment to quell a potentially volatile situation. The same can be said of the procedures for the VS Lingam case. Establishing a Royal Commission is not a triviality and must be shown to be a serious recourse to solve an issue of great national/public interest. CORRECT, CORRECT, CORRECT???
To be cautious and to err on the side of caution is much better than to rush headlong into a French-style revolution to set up a guillotine court. This is what self-professed heroes like RPK and AI are insidiously instigating. Reminds me of the Al Gore incident which infuriated us all didn't it!
But is this what peace-loving and consensus-seeking Malaysians really want? Do we really want a Pakistani-style mob? By lawyers and justice-loving people at that?
BUT I do agree with Nuraina that the demonstration may be symptomatic of bigger ills and unhapinesses that Malaysians are suffering from. The election issue is just one manifestation of the virus!
WHATEVER - I do not support street demos or mob rallies!
Was the passage the message
ReplyDeleteOr the message the passage?
You'll never know the taste and flavour even as a sage
Unless you take a really big bite and chew the sausage
(C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng -191107
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Mon. 19th Nov. 2007.
Ill informed my foot!
ReplyDeleteI wager the majority of those at the parade were there on orders from their party not knowing exactly what they were there for but to oppose the govt. (the majority were PAS members)
If Malek Imtiaz thinks that every one of those wearing yellow that day were well informed and educated on matters of the nation, and the rest of the rakyat aren't then he is as crooked as his mouth was (literally) when he spoke in the Al-Jazeera interview.
Incidentally, I see how many people ran Zam down for his lack of oratory skills in Al-Jazeera. How come there is a deafening silence on Khairy's abilities for the same?
It shows how many hypocrites there are around the blogs!
da real deal..
ReplyDeleteFunny you mentioned that. Since you paid so much attention to KJ, did you realise that he was speaking on behalf of the minister? I can understand Nazri, being there for the show, and Malik too, as he has been involved since don't know when to speak for those whose rights have been trampled on. But KJ? Who the F is he? By virtue of being the son in law? Why Umno deputy youth head? Why not MCA deputy youth head? Or even PAS youth head?
DO you see it?
Obviously not, and though I do not know Malik very well, I have heard enough, and seen enough of his efforts to help the wronged.
I can't say the same of you.
KJ may speak well, and so do any other graduates I have come across.
What he does not represent is the Government! HE IS NOT PART OF THE GOVERNMENT. HE IS A PART OF THE PARTY THAT IS KILLING THE PROGRESS OF MALAYSIA.
The number of big issues is rising. Politicians as we know, thrive on issues. But issues can be very taxing, whats more if they are not handled well.
ReplyDeleteThis being in the context of demonstrations ...
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that instead of protecting civilians from harm - the Police are causing harm to peaceful Hindraf civilians so that they can gain political milleage that demonstrations are bad.
If a canister of tear gas was thrown to the peaceful civilian, and one unthinking civilian responds by throwing back the canister back to the police - guess where the camera of TV3 will be pointing??? What a joke!!!
This is not a squable between 2 players - its a squable between the referee and the player. The referee the guardian of peace and justice stooping so low.
For more pictures - see www.jeffooi.com
on the police instigating violence when uncalled for.
And here is for context — the rightful role of the police, the riot to express ones views and gather as enshrined in the constitution.
I do agree that all these demonstrations seem like a waste of time and disrupting peace — which SHOULD BRING THE GOVERNMENT TO DISCUSS - WHATS WRONG WITH MALAYSIA AND WHY ARE THE CITIZENS RESORTING TO THE STREETS.
We would have more Al-Jazeera forums if the local forums do not have a platform to engage a neutral ground to hear both views.
Its really that simple
1. Ensure the press is free from government directives on what they can report. Its a disgrace that the Minister of Information would send faxes of directives on what not to cover for the newspapers. These directives are in black and white for all to see.
2. Ensure the government is transparent to report on happenings and its administration.
3. Ensure the judiciary, executive/government, parliment are all independent as well as ACA, police.
Its that simple right? Except that there are some who are greedy to make it complicated for their own gains.
We the Rakyat can demand for these simple demands
http://malikimtiaz.blogspot.com/2007/11/hindraf-rally-25th-november-2007.html
HAKAM believes that it is the right of every Malaysian to express his or her views in peaceable manner, no matter how unpopular those views may be. The right to assemble peaceably is a right guaranteed under the Federal Constitution. Though the Government and the Police are charged with the responsibility of maintaining public order, they are equally responsible for ensuring that citizens are free to express themselves. Peaceable demonstrations are universally recognized as legitimate means of expression. There is nothing to suggest that the HINDRAF assembly is intended to be anything other than a peaceable demonstration.
If the Government or the Police are concerned that there are elements that may lead to public disorder, then it is incumbent upon the Police to identify those elements and protect those who wish to assemble peaceably from them. Preventing HINDRAF and its supporters from assembling would only facilitate the purpose of those who wish to impede HINDRAF and its supporters. This would not only be unreasonable but would also render illusory the rights of assembly and expression.
In this vein, the preemptive measures should not have been taken. The situation did not warrant the obtaining of a preemptive restraining order.
Further, HAKAM deplores and condemns the invoking of the Sedition Act by the authorities. HAKAM views the Sedition Act as unconstitutional and as an outdated legislation that has no place in the modern progressive society that Malaysia is today. HINDRAF and its supporters have every right to express their dissatisfaction with the state of affairs even where such expression is not necessarily popular. Majority rule does not justify the denial of minority voices. The attempt to deny the minority voice in these circumstances only goes to reinforce belief that in Malaysia it is only the majority voice that matters. This is a belief that is unsupported in fact or law.
HAKAM urges the Police to allow HINDRAF and its supporters to assemble peaceably this Sunday and to protect them from untoward harm. HAKAM further urges the Police to exercise restraint and to not resort to force.
Malik Imtiaz Sarwar
President, HAKAM
24th November 2007